So MX4 isnt as good as AS5?

[Conumdrum]

So, using too much paste is okay, putting 5x times of what you need and it squeezes out, thus you wasted 4 apps and have a mess to clean. That's okay with me I guess.

Blue, please show me your tests you have done on 60+ paste application tests. I'm sure they are in Excel and are all on the same platform and temp compensated for continutity. So you have a solid data result.

 

[bluezero5]

sure, that belongs in another thread though.
I will start that thread for discussion. I didn't think that research would interest anyone, but since you asked, why not.

 

[Conumdrum]

sure, that belongs in another thread though.
I will start that thread for discussion. I didn't think that research would interest anyone, but since you asked, why not.

It does, something that will be a good mix aganst Skinnee and Vapors testing, currently the place to go, but one of a few right now. You got better, please post it.

 

[xander89]

You people aren't professionals. You keep passing along inaccuracies. There is no such thing as too much thermal paste, since once the heatsink makes contact, it spreads all the paste around and off to the sides. so if you add a lot of paste, all you'll get is a mess on the side and the same thickness layer of paste on the CPU. The thing that most determines the thickness of your paste is the tiny gap between your CPU/heatsink. Too little thermal paste is worse, while too much thermal paste is harmless. AS5 is the exception since it's capacitive, so you don't want to make a mess or it's dangerous for your components. But it's not a paste I would ever recommend anyways.

Of course you don't want to make a huge mess anyways or waste paste, but a pea sized amount is definitely too little for most processors. From my professional experience, the 'X' method works well on CPU's. My GPU is more rectangular, so the 'line' method works well length wise. These both ensure optimal coverage.

You don't want to just have coverage over the center of the processor, you want coverage over the whole processor heat spreader, increasing the area of contact thereby increasing heat dissipation.

Now when it comes to pastes, AS5 is capacitive, meaning it can connect and fry circuits if it touches them. It also doesn't spread very well, and eventually hardens to become a powder, it can even essentially glue your CPU to your heatsink.

I've personally used MX-4 paste and it's some of the best stuff out there. It spreads well, it's an actual thermal grease rather than a thermal 'puddy'. It will stay in grease form, meaning you could take it off of a heatsink years later and it will have basically the same consistency as the day you put it on. It won't glue your heatsink and CPU together, making it effortless to take off a heatsink if you ever need to. It's guaranteed for 8 years at least, which you'll probably get a new PC before then anyways. Zero curing time. It's not capacitive which means you could spill this stuff anywhere inside your PC and it won't harm anything. It's really good at keeping temps down, your temps will basically be as low as they're ever going to get compared to other pastes. even if another paste had a 1c difference that would be negligible. I have a huge syringe of MX-4 I bought for $12, enough to do more than a dozen processors and GPU's, so it's pretty cheap too. Hands down, I would personally consider it the best paste on the market, and since it has every positive feature anyone could want in a paste, it's the only paste anyone should bother with whether you're an expert or a novice.

AS5 is for misguided wannabe elitist fanboys (noobs) that don't know any better.

wow, ok bit harsh there. Firstly AS5 was by far the best paste in the market till the MX's came out. I've used it since 2005 and have never had an issue with it fusing/shorting out any parts. Even though a lot of people here are not professionals they have had years, sometimes decades or experience in these things. So fobbing off their opinions as wrong because they dont do it in a professional capacity is just a bit rude. Also i dont see how being a "professional" will help a whole load unless you are someone who has worked directly on making these pastes. What would you consider a professional capacity that would give you a massive advantage? I'm guessing your one of these "professionals"?

this seems to be a rather good vid actually

I think i might do some testing when im back at home with the cross method. The dot in the middle doesnt really come close to covering the whole ISH with pressure. ( maybe it does with more pressure from the block when fully pressed down.) The X method seems best. :s tbh i think we are all getting a little riled up about nothing. IN the end i doubt it will make much difference.

 

[manu2b]

wow, ok bit harsh there. Firstly AS5 was by far the best paste in the market till the MX's came out. I've used it since 2005 and have never had an issue with it fusing/shorting out any parts. Even though a lot of people here are not professionals they have had years, sometimes decades or experience in these things. So fobbing off their opinions as wrong because they dont do it in a professional capacity is just a bit rude. Also i dont see how being a "professional" will help a whole load unless you are someone who has worked directly on making these pastes. What would you consider a professional capacity that would give you a massive advantage? I'm guessing your one of these "professionals"?

 

[mjw21a]

^^^ Aye, agreed. I've worked 2nd and 3rd level tech support jobs for over ten years so I'd not like to be called a noob. None of that answering phones crap (my apologies to anyone I may have offended with that comment. I just can't handle the questions the poor first level guys get)

Mind you, hanging around here the past 8 years has helped with knowledge in many area's I'd not otherwise have exposure to in the workplace. If you intend to go around calling yourself a professional, the reply might just be a professional what?

 

[720x770]

well first off here is a chart of a benchmark done between various pastes.

as you can see, there isn't much difference between temperatures but AS5 is still not as good.

what it really comes down to is not the cooling performance of the product, but instead things like cost, pliability, ease of use, etc. MX-4 trumps AS5 in every area.

although AS5 does lose some of its thermal capacity about a year or two after application, which means if you want your temps as low as possible you'll have to replace it that often. plus it tends to dry out in the tube over the same time period which means many people bought something like a 4 gram tube and by the time they went to use some more in the future, it was useless.

you ever had a CPU glued to a processor? it can be very difficult to take off and it's very possible to damage something in the process. it's generally best to twist the heatsink off firmly but not too forcefully, but sometimes that doesn't work and you end up accidentally or forced to pull the heatsink off with the CPU attached, even though the CPU was still locked into the motherboard (and you can't unlock a cpu until the heatsink is off). this doesn't always result in damage, but it has resulted in things ranging from broken to bent CPU pins which can pretty much ruin the ability of a processor to work.

even the AS5 product page states:

While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.

of course you could simply say don't make a mess, but people, especially amateurs, make mistakes. best to eliminate the possibility of frying hundreds of dollars worth of components altogether. especially at high risk are GPU's since they are much smaller and around the immediate area of the die, there are all kinds of circuits to short.

 

[bluezero5]

Good reference.

I would like to point out one thing for many users though.

TIM selection, has a lot to do with your Vcore voltage too.
Some TIMs works better than the rest at lower Voltages (1.3-1.4V)
however, once the voltage is higher (1.4-1.5V) cause of the 'sharper' temperature shifts, those TIMs that did well in lower voltages might not necessary perform as much.

to me, TIM is the 'intermediate' between my water cooler and CPU, and HOW FAST it can transfer heat over, is more important than say, 48 hours of average heat transfer.

so for me, the Thermal Conductivity (W/mk) is actually the most important to me.

 

[Conumdrum]

well first off here is a chart of a benchmark done between various pastes.



A chart of a benchmark. Please show me that there was ambient temp correction. Please show me that it's an average of at least 3 mounts. Please show me the system used and the equipent used to include equipment and testing methods.

Lastly, you post a chart here, you need to provide a source meaning a link. The original poster needs credit and it gives validity to your post that it isn't a pile of magic.

Fill the holes WE need filled, otherwise the chart is worthless. We demand accountability here when such charts show up.

 

[johan851]

well first off here is a chart of a benchmark done between various pastes.

You set a really high bar for yourself. Calling a bunch of people here "noobs" and "amateurs" and saying they have it all wrong. And then this is the professional opinion you provide?

 

[wagex]

the main thing i like about the mx pastes is for one they are alot easier to clean up (mx2 anyhow) not that its that hard to begin with but between that and they are non conductive unlike as-5 but i dont think anyone has ever had that be a problem either, its all depends on your preference.
i use mx2 because its alot less messy and easier to clean up imho and it never dries up.

 

[xander89]

well first off here is a chart of a benchmark done between various pastes.

as you can see, there isn't much difference between temperatures but AS5 is still not as good.

what it really comes down to is not the cooling performance of the product, but instead things like cost, pliability, ease of use, etc. MX-4 trumps AS5 in every area.

although AS5 does lose some of its thermal capacity about a year or two after application, which means if you want your temps as low as possible you'll have to replace it that often. plus it tends to dry out in the tube over the same time period which means many people bought something like a 4 gram tube and by the time they went to use some more in the future, it was useless.

you ever had a CPU glued to a processor? it can be very difficult to take off and it's very possible to damage something in the process. it's generally best to twist the heatsink off firmly but not too forcefully, but sometimes that doesn't work and you end up accidentally or forced to pull the heatsink off with the CPU attached, even though the CPU was still locked into the motherboard (and you can't unlock a cpu until the heatsink is off). this doesn't always result in damage, but it has resulted in things ranging from broken to bent CPU pins which can pretty much ruin the ability of a processor to work.

even the AS5 product page states:


of course you could simply say don't make a mess, but people, especially amateurs, make mistakes. best to eliminate the possibility of frying hundreds of dollars worth of components altogether. especially at high risk are GPU's since they are much smaller and around the immediate area of the die, there are all kinds of circuits to short.

for someone who refers to "professionals", and "amateurs" i find it funny how you seemed to get schooled by these so called "amateurs". I also find it laughable that you believe that applying thermal paste/ removing a heatsink properly requires you to work as a "professional"? Dont make me laugh. I'm pretty sure i could put together/fix most hardware issues with just as much ease as many "professionals", you know why? Because this is my hobby, i dont do it for a job, I enjoy it and I read about it nearly every day for hours on end, probably more so than a professional in a lot of cases.

No one here is claiming AS5 is amazing/it is the best paste ever. Actually the general consensus is that MX4 is better, but AS5 is not far off/ in actual fact it makes little difference in relation to temps. I for one have actually always found AS5 easy to work with. Never had any issues with it in terms of application. Not only that a small tube of AS5 has lasted me around 2 years and through about 3/4 new builds/ numerous TIM applications. I have also never had a tube dry up one me. But before you blow up about it, i am not an AS5 fanboy, I just bought some MX4. Partly cos its a massive tube for a small amount of money. But I haven't replaced the AS5 on my CPU as I have no need to, when i redo my loop i will.

Also you still haven't actually said what "professional" you are. If you are going to try and act all high and mighty about something as trivial as TIM and its application (which any numbnuts with half a brain can do) you better offer something to back up these arrogant posts.

 

[720x770]

for someone who refers to "professionals", and "amateurs" i find it funny how you seemed to get schooled by these so called "amateurs". I also find it laughable that you believe that applying thermal paste/ removing a heatsink properly requires you to work as a "professional"? Dont make me laugh. I'm pretty sure i could put together/fix most hardware issues with just as much ease as many "professionals", you know why? Because this is my hobby, i dont do it for a job, I enjoy it and I read about it nearly every day for hours on end, probably more so than a professional in a lot of cases.

No one here is claiming AS5 is amazing/it is the best paste ever. Actually the general consensus is that MX4 is better, but AS5 is not far off/ in actual fact it makes little difference in relation to temps. I for one have actually always found AS5 easy to work with. Never had any issues with it in terms of application. Not only that a small tube of AS5 has lasted me around 2 years and through about 3/4 new builds/ numerous TIM applications. I have also never had a tube dry up one me. But before you blow up about it, i am not an AS5 fanboy, I just bought some MX4. Partly cos its a massive tube for a small amount of money. But I haven't replaced the AS5 on my CPU as I have no need to, when i redo my loop i will.

Also you still haven't actually said what "professional" you are. If you are going to try and act all high and mighty about something as trivial as TIM and its application (which any numbnuts with half a brain can do) you better offer something to back up these arrogant posts.

"Also you still haven't actually said what "professional" you are. If you are going to try and act all high and mighty about something as trivial as TIM and its application (which any numbnuts with half a brain can do) you better offer something to back up these arrogant posts."

that is a common arguing trick. anyone can make up qualifications over the internet. I give you my qualification, and you'll either disregard it or say I'm making it up. it makes the whole exercise pointless, because either way it won't make a difference in your eyes and will just give you more fuel to complain. I refuse to play those petty childish arguing games. would my qualifications make you more readily accept what you are already refuting? no, it would not, because your mind is already made up. why should I bother to change a mind that does not want to be changed?

when someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument can I make for them to value logic? when someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence am I supposed to provide to make them value evidence? at that point, talking to you and an inanimate object becomes the same thing.

" in actual fact it makes little difference in relation to temps."

see that's the problem with trolls like you, you're arguing for something that I've already stated. I already stated that temp differences aren't much, although they're there. I also stated that it comes down to other aspects of the pastes.

---
cost (newegg):
AS5 (3.5g) - $12
MX4 (4.0g) - $10

half a gram more paste and at less cost. may not seem like a big difference, but let's say a company needs $1000 worth of paste; they'd be saving $200, actually more since there's more paste in the MX4 tube. every bit counts. savings are savings big or small.
---
Spreadability:
AS5 is thicker than MX4 which means it's more difficult to spread (even if slightly) and does not spread as evenly.

as a side note, MX4 remains in its paste form throughout its usage while AS5 hardens into a solid. MX4 can be wiped off with ease years later, while AS5 may need a good scrubbing, possibly with a small bit of alcohol in order to dissolve it and clean the CPU/heatsink entirely.

AS5 also has a 200 hour cure time, while MX4 has zero curing time.
---
Safety:
AS5 is capacitive, MX4 is not.
---
Shelf life:
AS5 can 'separate' (much like how milk curdles) after a few years of sitting in the tube, typically the shelf life maximum is 4 years, although many have reported as little as a year and a half in the tube. its storage requirements are typically in a dark cool place (such as a fridge) in a standing position rather than on its side.
MX4 has a manufacturer guaranteed shelf life of 8 years minimum and does not have any special storage requirements. (so even if it did go bad, they'd send you a new tube free of charge)
---
WINNER: MX4 (hands down)


" If you are going to try and act all high and mighty about something as trivial as TIM "

judging by your excessive tenacity, I'd say it's obvious your own comment applies to you.

 

[EpicMango]

I still use, and like AS5

I dont use the stupid lines anymore.. now I just put a blob in the center, drop the kit on it and give it a titty twister, then clamp it down, works awsome

Lol. I did exactly what you said you don't! But that was for my first build, which I just finished doing!

(I youtubed it, and thats how the guy did it)

 

[mjw21a]

xander89, chill dude. The guy said something that is frankly a bit insulting. Just leave it as doing so reflects poorly on him, however us reacting too much reflects poorly on us. Try not to drawn in by the trolls. Having said that, I know I've done so a few times but yeah, I know where you're coming from and definitely agree with what you're saying. I'll be happy to complain with you in a PM session, but this is public

Simple fact is your choice of thermal paste is almost irrelevant as most reputable companies products are within a degree or two of each other. Cooler choice is far more important.

 

[bluezero5]

my question is..

why no one talking about PK-1 or IX? both are obviously better TIM than MX-4 or AS-5.

When I debate, I like to compare to the gold medalist, I can't really care the difference between the 5 and 6th runner ups. hehehe

 

[mjw21a]

Price and availability possibly

 

[720x770]

wow you really dont have a clue do you.

Firstly you come into a thread and state people are noobs, fanboys and amateurs pretty much right off the bat and you have the gall to call me a troll?

I've already quite clearly stated i agree that MX4 is a better paste to choose, i have said it around 3 times now, it has also been the general consensus throughout the thread.

My point was simply that AS5 is not far enough behind to warrant you ****ting on other peoples opinions by calling them fanboys & amateurs. That the is qualm i have with you, it has nothing to do with your arguments in favour of MX4.

No I do not believe that any "profession" will allow you to take the high ground in relation to your "OPINION" on what you think is the best thermal paste and method of application. So you are right there, it wont change my mind, but i would love to know what "profession" an arrogant little **** like yourself thinks gives you an almighty knowledge above all others on this forum. I wouldnt be asking the question if you hadnt have started your first post by saying

"You people aren't professionals. You keep passing along inaccuracies." ( your first line in fact)

and then

"AS5 is for misguided wannabe elitist fanboys (noobs) that don't know any better."

There is NO profession which will lead to your opinion being more valid than anyone else's so stop acting as if you are the only person here who can see the facts. But if you are going to state things like that you better be prepared to back it up. I'll believe you whatever you say your profession is, i just want to see what gives a deluded troll like yourself such a misguided sense of superiority.

you say i dont value evidence or logic, yet you seem blind to the fact that the general consensus of the thread agreed with you. What most people cant get their heads around is not the evidence or arguments you put forward, rather the way in which you went about it.

Also I've read your previous posts How you can call me a Troll is laughable.

So quite frankly I'm done with wasting my time on you.

any more replies by you and it will be met with a appropriate GIF good day sir and crawl back into the hole from whence you came

all I see is an angry child.

"No I do not believe that any "profession" will allow you to take the high ground in relation to your "OPINION" on what you think is the best thermal paste and method of application. So you are right there"

exactly. why ask then? because you are a troll using troll tactics. maybe you've been doing it soo long you don't realize how transparent you are.

"Also I've read your previous posts"

....which only a troll would do.


"My point was simply that AS5 is not far enough behind "

far enough by what criteria? I've proven over and over that AS5 is behind in every single aspect of what MX4 offers. cost, spread, safety, shelf life, manufacturers guarantee, ease of removal, curing time, etc. when you're behind in every area, you're far behind. speaking of behind, I'd ask you to quit while you're ahead.....but you'd have to be ahead first.



at this point the only reason why I do reply, is to let you make a fool of yourself. there's nothing you can accomplish here but that.

 

[kommanderkodiak]

Kodiak in for the rescue on application methods and spreading characteristics of different types, i think you guys with find this highly useful!

edit* almost forgot, heres the thermal paste show down G751 best bang for buck

80 paste showdown

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=62

 

[xander89]

Kodiak in for the rescue on application methods and spreading characteristics of different types, i think you guys with find this highly useful!

edit* almost forgot, heres the thermal paste show down G751 best bang for buck

80 paste showdown

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=62

I think i supplied both those links earlier in the thread

edit my mistake i just posted the youtube vid