Will I need a new PSU?

[Gotaro]

Hi! Sorry if this forum gets flooded with this question and I was supposed to do research on my own and magically find the answer.. ;P When I plugged my intended specs into eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5, with some options checked that I don't even currently have (room for improvement), it came out with a recommendation of 373W. I currently have a 430W Thermaltake with these specs:

+3.3V | +5V | +12V | -5V  | -12V | +5VSB
20A   | 30A | 18A  | 0.5A | 0.8A | 2A

This is the intended system:
A64 3800+ (single-core)
HD 4870
4GB DDR

So do I really need a new PSU, like ATI recommends (500+W)?
Thanks!

 

[rainless]

Hi! Sorry if this forum gets flooded with this question and I was supposed to do research on my own and magically find the answer.. ;P When I plugged my intended specs into eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5, with some options checked that I don't even currently have (room for improvement), it came out with a recommendation of 373W. I currently have a 430W Thermaltake with these specs:

+3.3V | +5V | +12V | -5V  | -12V | +5VSB
20A   | 30A | 18A  | 0.5A | 0.8A | 2A

This is the intended system:
A64 3800+ (single-core)
HD 4870
4GB DDR

So do I really need a new PSU, like ATI recommends (500+W)?
Thanks!

Eventually I'm going to put this is my sig but NEVER EVER USE A POWER SUPPLY CALCULATOR.

...they're just a marketing scheme created by Stalin during the Blitz.

Now... YES...

...you will need a new power supply. A single 18A is just a sad... sad thing.

Three 18a... even TWO would be sufficient.

I would recommend a Corsair 550HX 650TX or better.

 

[Gotaro]

Haha.. Funny! I went to the calculator because the sticky said to! Okay, so let me make sure I got this.. I'm looking for a PSU with at least 2x +12V rails, right? Basically, I want to get away with spending as little as possible (if any at all) on this PSU, and invest in a better one when I upgrade the whole system. You say you recommend the Corsairs or better, but that's a $100+ PSU.. Is it really going to take that just to enable me to add a 4870 to my current setup?
>>This one<< caught my attention.. It's the right price!

 

[RollingThunder]

Haha.. Funny! I went to the calculator because the sticky said to! Okay, so let me make sure I got this.. I'm looking for a PSU with at least 2x +12V rails, right? Basically, I want to get away with spending as little as possible (if any at all) on this PSU, and invest in a better one when I upgrade the whole system. You say you recommend the Corsairs or better, but that's a $100+ PSU.. Is it really going to take that just to enable me to add a 4870 to my current setup?
>>This one<< caught my attention.. It's the right price!

Gotaro,

You're gonna need a power supply with 2 6-pin connectors. That TT isn't gonna cut. You're spending $200 plus for a nice vid card, don't run it with a clunker power supply.

Check this list here and pick something from it with 2 6-pin connectors:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=589708

 

[Gotaro]

You're spending $200 plus for a nice vid card, don't run it with a clunker power supply.

I know, right? Only spending $200 on the card, then looking at $100 PSU's!! That makes it more like a $300 card in my eyes.. But I found one on the list for $45. I put that sucker on auto-notify.. >:] Thanks for being honest!

 

[rainless]

Haha.. Funny! I went to the calculator because the sticky said to! Okay, so let me make sure I got this.. I'm looking for a PSU with at least 2x +12V rails, right? Basically, I want to get away with spending as little as possible (if any at all) on this PSU, and invest in a better one when I upgrade the whole system. You say you recommend the Corsairs or better, but that's a $100+ PSU.. Is it really going to take that just to enable me to add a 4870 to my current setup?
>>This one<< caught my attention.. It's the right price!

No... You don't need 2x 12v rails. You need at least 36a. Be that on two 12v at 18a or just a single 12v @ 36a (And the 4870 may require even more than that... not sure... but I do KNOW that 18a isn't gonna cut it.)

You can get a 750tx right now for $76 after rebate... a sound investment if you ask me. (You'd probably never need another power supply.)

 

[RollingThunder]

No... You don't need 2x 12v rails. You need at least 36a. Be that on two 12v at 18a or just a single 12v @ 36a (And the 4870 may require even more than that... not sure... but I do KNOW that 18a isn't gonna cut it.)

You can get a 750tx right now for $76 after rebate... a sound investment if you ask me. (You'd probably never need another power supply.)

Can't beat that!

That makes it more like a $300 card in my eyes.. But I found one on the list for $45.

On the other hand, when a poor quality power supply with no internal protection takes out your $200+ 4870, then it becomes a $400+ video card.

 

[RSDXzec]

you can usually get away with a little less than whats recommended by companies, they just have to put the recommendations a bit higher than whats really needed because of all the $#!T PSU's out there.

 

[Gotaro]

No... You don't need 2x 12v rails. You need at least 36a. Be that on two 12v at 18a or just a single 12v @ 36a (And the 4870 may require even more than that... not sure... but I do KNOW that 18a isn't gonna cut it.)

You can get a 750tx right now for $76 after rebate... a sound investment if you ask me. (You'd probably never need another power supply.)

Where was that 750TX from? And I don't quite understand the whole "rails" system. Is the rail not the connector? Like.. The HD 4870 needs 2 +12v rails, aka 6-pin connectors, 2x3s, PCI-E connectors. Are they not all the same thing? So if I get a PSU with a single, powerful +12v rail (like I confusingly read was recommended for all modern PSUs), will it split into two connectors for the card or something?
Also, how do you know it needs 36A? AMD's requirement just says this: "500 Watt or greater power supply with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express® power connectors recommended (600 Watt and four 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)"

On the other hand, when a poor quality power supply with no internal protection takes out your $200+ 4870, then it becomes a $400+ video card.

Haha.. True, I suppose! ;P I wish I could go back in time and save the $40 I spent on my current PSU to add to the new one.. x_x;

you can usually get away with a little less than whats recommended by companies, they just have to put the recommendations a bit higher than whats really needed because of all the $#!T PSU's out there.

Yeah, but my problem is that they only recommend a particular wattage, which means nothing. My life would be a lot easier if Newegg would just let me sort PSUs by which ones were AMD-certified.. It's a painstakingly long process to copy+paste the name of each PSU one-by-one into Newegg and try to find a low-priced one..

 

[RollingThunder]

Where was that 750TX from? And I don't quite understand the whole "rails" system. Is the rail not the connector? Like.. The HD 4870 needs 2 +12v rails, aka 6-pin connectors, 2x3s, PCI-E connectors. Are they not all the same thing? So if I get a PSU with a single, powerful +12v rail (like I confusingly read was recommended for all modern PSUs), will it split into two connectors for the card or something?


Haha.. True, I suppose! ;P I wish I could go back in time and save the $40 I spent on my current PSU to add to the new one.. x_x;


Yeah, but my problem is that they only recommend a particular wattage, which means nothing. My life would be a lot easier if Newegg would just let me sort PSUs by which ones were AMD-certified.. It's a painstakingly long process to copy+paste the name of each PSU one-by-one into Newegg and try to find a low-priced one..

Gotaro,

"Rail" explanation here:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=548862

Don't be too concerned about the internal build of the top units unless you're really interested. Most people aren't.

That Corsair 750w is usually on a great sale off and on at Newegg, sometimes Zip Zoom Fly.com too. And I would rather not mention all the things "I should have done" either. We have all wasted money from time to time on this stuff through judement errors and I am as guilty as anyone here.

Sometimes the Corsair 650TX is on a good sale too, you just have to catch them with free shipping too.

 

[burebista]

So if I get a PSU with a single, powerful +12v rail (like I confusingly read was recommended for all modern PSUs), will it split into two connectors for the card or something?

Readme.

I strongly suggest to change your current PSU. From specs it looks like an ATX12V v1.3 PSU (30A for +5V rail tell me that) cosmetized for ATX12V v2.x
A Corsair VX550 should be more than enough for your setup. In fact it's enough a Corsair VX450 but it has only one PCI-E connector.

But I see that nobody tells you that you'll cripple your HD4870 performance with your single core AMD 3800+. It's like you'll have a Ferrari with an FIAT engine.

 

[rainless]

Readme.

I strongly suggest to change your current PSU. From specs it looks like an ATX12V v1.3 PSU (30A for +5V rail tell me that) cosmetized for ATX12V v2.x
A Corsair VX550 should be more than enough for your setup. In fact it's enough a Corsair VX450 but it has only one PCI-E connector.

But I see that nobody tells you that you'll cripple your HD4870 performance with your single core AMD 3800+. It's like you'll have a Ferrari with an FIAT engine.

3800 WHAT?!?!?!

hahahahahahahahahahaha!

How the hell did I miss that?

Alright: Once you understand what "rail" means you need to work out what "bottleneck" means.

Basically imagine trying to pour out a ten gallon jug of antifreeze capped off by a salt shaker cover... that's it.

Your CPU will NEVER be able to keep up with a 4870. So before you even venture into the neck of the woods of one, you need to upgrade the rest of your setup. And... as is... your current power supply can't run a 4870 anyway. So you might as well upgrade your whole setup.

 

[danbroke]

I have that corsair 650tx and love it! I think its worth the money. With 5 year warrenty and build quality and will help maybe down the road.

corsair 650tx
m3a79-t deluxe
5000+be
arctic freezer 64
his hd3870
2gb corsair xms2 6400
2 sata hd
2 dvd burners
smilodon case

 

[Gotaro]

Don't be too concerned about the internal build of the top units unless you're really interested.

Lol, good advice. I think I got the gist of it after reading a little into the post you and burebista pointed me to.

I strongly suggest to change your current PSU. From specs it looks like an ATX12V v1.3 PSU (30A for +5V rail tell me that) cosmetized for ATX12V v2.x
A Corsair VX550 should be more than enough for your setup. In fact it's enough a Corsair VX450 but it has only one PCI-E connector.

But I see that nobody tells you that you'll cripple your HD4870 performance with your single core AMD 3800+. It's like you'll have a Ferrari with an FIAT engine.

Oh, the CPU bottleneck conversation is in a different thread.. I'll buy up AM2+ stuff when AM3 hits the shelves.

Okay.. After looking at the Corsairs and their prices+wattages.. How does this PSU look? PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W I know it's no 750TX, but it seems to be about the same as the 550VX, just a little cheaper, higher wattage, and it's OCZ (I think).

And by the way, thanks to everyone who has been helping (and putting up with) me! I'd be so lost without you guys! X_X;

About the bottleneck.. this is the thread I asked about it in: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=590510
If you have anything to add or refute, etc, please do. I get so many contradicting answers all the time on this forum (and others).. But I try to keep my head up

I have that corsair 650tx and love it! I think its worth the money. With 5 year warrenty and build quality and will help maybe down the road.

Thanks for the endorsement!

 

[danbroke]

also the tx650 650watt is not all this puts out. that what it can put out at 80% constant load. other "cheaper" ones will peak at there watts for secs. before the POP HISS! and your out a lotta money

 

[burebista]

Yep, That PC P&C is a good Seasonic unit inside.

 

[Gotaro]

Well, as of right now, I'm hoping to hear back from anyone where I can find an article or anything that suggests a particular amperage for the 4870? rainless said 36A, but I've seen forum posts from google ranging from low 20s to 40A (and no articles or official statements), and this 500W PC P&C is only $50, with 35A on the +12V. >_>;

 

[burebista]

It's OK.

 

[Gotaro]

Lol okay. I've bothered everyone enough. Thanks again, guys.

This is what I found (for future reference):
The Seasonic SS-430GM Active PFC F3 (430W) is AMD-certified for a single 4870/4850, etc. This may or may not be the lowest wattage/amperage PSU on the list, just the first one I saw under 35A on the +12V. It only has 430W and 2x +12V@17A (total 34A, right?). It is pretty expensive IMO for what you get, so I could be missing something.
This article recommends 32A on the +12V.

If anyone has any major complaints or heeds of warning, I'll wait a little bit before buying the 500W PC P&C.

 

[burebista]

Man, a HD4870 needs ~11A in full-load. Long way until 35A.