Am I going in the right direction?

[n3xu5]

Hi everyone, to be straight forward i have no experience in water cooling. However i feel that i'm prepared to take my first step into my own water cooling journey, and i hope the out come will be worth the effort i plan to put into it.

Currently, i'm posting on this forum looking for suggestions, comments, and opinions as any advice/help will be much appreciated. I've read a lot of reviews for different parts, kits, and water cooling accessories and feel that i have a good beginner knowledge of it all. I can even say i know what proteteia is too bad i'll never be able to dish out 1000+ bucks for one of those bad boys.

I've come to my own conclusion that a premade kit would not be for me as i am a computer enthusiast whom loves to do things himself. I also realise that nearly all premade kits have a drawback or a flaw in some sort of way. Be it minor even, its still a flaw nevertheless. I would rather buy the parts myself individually and then construct my own setup myself with a insight of what i build will be better than any kit out there right now with the exception of some professional prometeia setup ;p

First i'd like to ask a few questions if anyone would be willing to give an answer:

#1. Most of the time for kit and product reviews, i see full load temps around 35-40 degrees celcius, does a self built kit have the ability to push the temp lower around 20-30 degrees celcius?

#2. What advantage does a thermoelectic cooling water block (ex: Swiftech MCW462-UHT) have over basic water block (ex: Swiftech MCW5000-A) and which seems to be the best choice as where price isnt an issue?

#3. Whats the purpose of a pump switch relay and is it absolutely required?

Those are the three main questions i have about water cooling that come to mind right now. Now on to my desired setup; any comments, advice, or suggestions will be appreciated.

Water Block: Swiftech for sure, either the MCW5000-A or the MCW462-UHT. I'm curious on which to use in reguards to question #2.

GPU Water Block: Swiftech again, MCW50 or the MCW50-T (depending once again on the answer to question #2). I'd have to get the Swiftech MCW50 GeForce FX 5800/5900 Adapter Kit for my 5900 Ultra (i believe both blocks work with the kit).

Pump: I've read many a good thing on Eheim Pumps, currently there are two i have my eye on, the 1048 (158GPH) and the 1250 (317GPH). I would think i dont need anything like the 1250 for basic CPU and GPU water cooling. Again, i dont know which would be better for me. I know that the 1250 would definately increase the flow rate of the water thus having water circulate faster thru the system and one would think that this leads to lower temps but thats not always the case. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Radiator: Heh, this is how the water gets cooled obviously. I see a lot of people say Danger Den Black Ice and D-Tek, and those speak from experience i would assume. Plus both Companies have very good reviews. As for right now, I'm leaning towards either the DD Black Ice Xtreme I or the D-Tek Pro Core & Shroud Combo. I know a shroud does help the radiator and the blackice doesnt appear to have a shroud i dont think, but my decision on this piece lies with my question #1 in reguards to which may provide a cooler temp.

Reservoir: I gotta admit that D-tek BayRes looks sweet. I know the basic function of a reservoir is for fill/bleed. Either way i am pretty sure i'll go with this reservoir in any event.

I dont think i'm really forgetting anything here, you got your tubes, connectors, clips, etc heh and i think thats a complete setup for the average user.

I was thinking about using Windshield Wiper Fluid for my liquid instead of distilled water and water wetter or something like that. Wiper Fluid contains methyl alcohol for excellent heat transfer, and it prevents galvanic corrosion. The alcohol would evaporate after a month or so but a refill job isnt an issue. Any ideas or comments on windshield wiper fluid as a coolant?

Some of you are probably wondering, "ok he might have the right idea but what is he planning to use all of this with?" Here's your answer:

AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton Core
Asus A7N8XDELUXE REV2
1GB Corsair PC3200 DDR400
nVidia Geforce FX 5900 Ultra
Coolermaster Wavemaster TAC-T01 Case

I'm hoping with the right modding (and i'm a case mod freak) I can fit my Water cooling setup into the Wavemaster. I'm sure i can fit it in there, just might take some drilling and hole punching.

That pretty much wraps this up, once again any comments, suggestions, answers would be greatly appreciated. Also Tell me what you think of the setup i have in mind, i'd love to hear some responses and first impressions, critique. Thankyou...

 

[nikhsub1]

I'll try to give you some direction.
#1. Comparing temps is fruitless as each CPU, mobo etc is different and it is generally accepted that temps are not really accurate.
#2. Thermoelectric cooling (AKA Peltiers or Pelts) can bring the WB temp down to very low temps, I DO NOT recommend this to you now, get your feet wet with straight H20, then go on and play with Pelts. Another thing, you will need to prepare for condensation with pelts and it is not fun, at least to me.
#3. The purpose of a pump relay switch is to have the pump turn on and off with the system and it is NOT necessary but a nice addition.

Why Swiftech for sure? They are good but there are 2 that are better, the White Water from D-Tek and the Cascade from Cathar. If you plan to go pelts later on though, you should go with the swiftech, Id get the new MCW5002 with the 1/2" barbs. You can always add the pelt setup to it later. The GPU block looks good too, again, I think you can add the pelt to the block later on the vid block too, might want to check though.

Id get the Eheim 1250 or a Danner Mag 3. The mag 3 has better specs, but worse EMI shielding and can leak if not setup right.

The D-Tek core will outperform the BI any day. The d-tek core is basically a chevette heatercore which you could buy at an autoparts store and put barbs on yourself if you wanted to.

I don't like resevoirs at all. They are basically useless and take up space. If you must, fine but be wary, they can break and crack and leak etc, etc. I would go with a tee line for filling and bleeding.

Widow wiper fluid is a bad idea. Distilled water is better with some anti-freeze (5-10%). This should keep growth out and help with corrosion, nothing more is really needed but I'd stay away from the washer fluid, It won't cool better than water.

 

[cypher_138]

I would suggest a Cascade or a WW for the CPU. These will give you the lowest temps of all the WBs out there.
As for pumps I went with a Danner3 because of how well they perform and I have'nt been disapointed yet.
Of the two rads you listed the Dtek pro core combo is the route to take. I ordered another shroud and 120mm fan for mine to get the temps a little lower.
I tried to build my own rez but it failed the leak test so I used the one in the pics in my sig. I went with one of these
http://members.speedguide.net/cypher_138/xoxide_1754_9361025.gif
The TEC blocks are built to withstand the heat generated by a pelt. Pelts require a 12v PSU and create condensation that you'll need to take preventitive steps to keep at bay. If you're just starting out or don't want to deal with that this is'nt the way to go.
The relay is just that... a relay. When a current goes through them they create a connection. Therefore when your computer powers on/off it turns your pump on/off. Mine runs 24/7 so I did'nt get one.
As for coolant I running 1qt of distilled water to 1oz of Purple ice with a ml of IPA. I won't be using the alcohol since it can react with other parts negatively.
Currently I'm at 3.6GHz on rig 1 in my sig. Temps are holding at 28/29C folding 24/7 under load.

 

[n3xu5]

nikhsub wrote:

If you plan to go pelts later on though, you should go with the swiftech, Id get the new MCW5002 with the 1/2" barbs. You can always add the pelt setup to it later. The GPU block looks good too, again, I think you can add the pelt to the block later on the vid block too, might want to check though.

I use AMD and it seems that those add-on assembly kits from Swift Tech are P4 based only. With that being said, later add-on isnt an option for me unless they make one for AMD.

I must admit i havent heard of the cascade although i did see a picture just now from looking it up and the block looks like it was machine and just didnt appease my eye. However the White Water Block looks nice with a third barb, probably increases some performance to a certian degree.

Reason why i said Swift Tech for sure was because i use a heat sink made by them and it works awsome, i guess you could say that i've had a good experience from my swift tech heat sink. I'm interested on how the White Water would compare to the Swift Tech MCW5002...

cypher_138 wrote:

The TEC blocks are built to withstand the heat generated by a pelt. Pelts require a 12v PSU and create condensation that you'll need to take preventitive steps to keep at bay. If you're just starting out or don't want to deal with that this is'nt the way to go.

How much on average does a 12v PSU run for? Also, what are the main steps taken to prevent condensation if a person runs PELTS? How hard is it to prevent condensation effectively?

BTW cypher thats a nice looking res, where did you get it at or where is it sold at?

 

[nikhsub1]

nikhsub wrote:


I use AMD and it seems that those add-on assembly kits from Swift Tech are P4 based only. With that being said, later add-on isnt an option for me unless they make one for AMD.

I must admit i havent heard of the cascade although i did see a picture just now from looking it up and the block looks like it was machine and just didnt appease my eye. However the White Water Block looks nice with a third barb, probably increases some performance to a certian degree.

Reason why i said Swift Tech for sure was because i use a heat sink made by them and it works awsome, i guess you could say that i've had a good experience from my swift tech heat sink. I'm interested on how the White Water would compare to the Swift Tech MCW5002...
B]

It doesnt matter if you use AMD or Intel, I belive you can get the pelt kit for either setup later on, call Swiftech and ask them. The WW will outperform the MCW5002 by about 3C at 100W, this is verified by testing from BillA, the WB testing autority who now works for Swiftech. The Cascade is THE BEST WB on the planet right now. It outperforms the WW by about 2C and the 5002 by about 5C.

 

[cypher_138]

Thanks N3xu5. I got mine here:
http://www.xoxide.com/ware.html
Here's a 12v PSU too
http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=C&Category_Code=PS
I would strongly recomend against going this route at first. Take Niks advice, he has alot of experience. I considered going TEC as well but decided it would be best to take it one step at a time. I say start out with some H20. Once you get that down than look into more extreme cooling methods. You can use this time to do some research on the subject while getting some first hand experience with WC'ing. Search here for a thread Cathar started on water cooling -vs- phase change. Follow up the link to OCA as well.

 

[n3xu5]

Well, i think it's pretty clear that i cant go peltier at all, caus ei didnt know that a 12v dedicated PSU would suck some serious electricty. My electricity bill is pretty high already, i live in Texas and it get s pretty darn hot down here in the summer (around 90-102 degrees F).

My computer room is a small one so its not always "cool" in there but it is decent room temp. So without pelts being an option and water cooling the goal, what other ways can i cool my cpu down and system without pelts? I recently strolled thru the Extreme Cooling forum here and read a few things about water chillers. I think the most affordable water chiller is the one you build yourself from what i've read. I know they are available on ebay and thats about it.

I'm really shooting for 20-30 degrees celcius all around. But since it does get hot in my computer room some times 10-20 degrees celcius might be even better. What options do i have without killing my electric bill?

Recently, in an issue of Maximum PC mag, the DM2003 (sept 2003 issue) featured a Voodoo F-1 cooling setup. Even though its not available for sale seperately just yet, are there any companies that make videocard memory water blocks?

Also, are there any USA Resellers of the Cascade WB? if not how much will it cost to buy and have shipped to the USA from AUS?

 

[cypher_138]

Well it will soon be fall and the temps will be lower. I still say start with H20. Perhaps get a larger radiator or run two ProCores like Nik. Than again mabey you could get a window AC unit. Since the room in question is small run it sparingly during peak months during the day. You could even go for evaporative cooling and use a bong instead of a rad. Take it in small steps though. You have fall, winter and spring before that Texas heat is back on you.
As for the Cascade it was like $100 shipped. You get them here:
http://www.employees.org/~slf/lrwb/

 

[n3xu5]

hmm window a/c unit wont happen i have central air and there's no window in the computer room. Evaporative Cooling seems like a bad thing for me as i plan on doing something with my distilled water and i dont wanna breathe and bad fumes.

I'll prolly use the Eheim 1250, and a D-Tek Pro Core with Shroud and fan. Question on that though, about the push pull method, does it work better to cool the water? Would having 2 Pro Cores with dual fans and dual shrouds do some serious cooling?

 

[nikhsub1]

Would having 2 Pro Cores with dual fans and dual shrouds do some serious cooling?

Yes it would! I use 2 of em, with dual shrouds and dual fans and my temps dropped 5C going from 1 to 2. You can get water temps within 1-2C of ambient with dual Dtek cores running in parallel.

 

[n3xu5]

ok sounds like a more reasonable option i can try out for some better temps. Are there any other things i can do to improve the temp?

Does anyone know anything about videocard memory water blocks?

Edit: Something that just came to my attention is my case the Coolermaster Wavemaster TAC-T01, i dont know if a dual push/pull rad setup would fit in there or not. Anyone have comments on that? i just bought this case and i love it! I really dont wanna have to ditch this case just for another push/pull rad...