Delidding Zen 4 Ryzen, 7950x etc

[User5566]

Looking at the current offer ... you don't want to.

Yes, I couldn't find what I wanted with them in this generation. They do seem to be loved a lot on YouTube though so I wonder if it's just marketing?

I've mixed feelings about ASUS. One hears all these bad stuff about their customer service etc, but everything I ever bought from them just works for me. (also this gen, the feature set on the x670e proart creator board is exactly what I needed without spending crazy money - although what's crazy money gets moved further and further).

When I was building my am4 rig around 3~4 years ago I went for a Gigabyte board. I had various weird compatibility issues. I ended up returning it and going back with ASUS (tuf gaming x570-plus back then)

I used to run my loops with nothing but demineralized water from a local store. I usually had no problems for a year+. If there is no dust or other things in the loop and the water temperature isn't high, then it will be fine. This is why loop flushing kits exist, but you can use some homemade mix with a little vinegar or other things to clean the loop before you connect everything with graphics cards. There are guides around the web.

Thanks.

 

[Woomack]

Yes, I couldn't find what I wanted with them in this generation. They do seem to be loved a lot on YouTube though so I wonder if it's just marketing?

Yes.

I've mixed feelings about ASUS. One hears all these bad stuff about their customer service etc, but everything I ever bought from them just works for me. (also this gen, the feature set on the x670e proart creator board is exactly what I needed without spending crazy money - although what's crazy money gets moved further and further).

When I was building my am4 rig around 3~4 years ago I went for a Gigabyte board. I had various weird compatibility issues. I ended up returning it and going back with ASUS (tuf gaming x570-plus back then)

Thanks.

Most problems with ASUS support are shared by US/CA users. In the EU, it works in a different way. I won't say there are no problems in the EU, as I had some myself (and I was fighting with them over one motherboard via ROG forums/Taiwan support), but there are different problems, and some are caused by global ASUS policies forced by Taiwan HQ. For example, when they had a shortage of some components, their support was forced to reject more RMA than usual, saying it was because of mechanical issues (even though not related to the problem).
Gigabyte had various compatibility issues in the previous generations, mainly with RAM (like the Gigabyte+Corsair problem for 3 generations). The current generation is surprisingly good. I tested some of their new motherboards, and all were fine, with good RAM compatibility and no other problems. I only dislike how they limit some options in BIOS, saying it's because of CPU safety.

 

[User5566]

So I'm tearing apart my few day old loop to install the new gpu waterblocks and I see my delid-die-mate nickel plated cpu block is yellow already! Fuuuuu......

I've flushed the radiators, the tubing, the blocks, but not Alphacool brass fittings. These are machined rather than soldered fittings. I tested water pH with testing strips - it's neutral.

It looks as if copper got plated on top of nickel? I guess I have my lesson not to use pure distilled water, because it will dissolve some copper and that will plate onto nickel (like in the classic steel nail plating in copper solution).

The brighter discoloration is where I stuck a q tip to see it it comes off. Nothing was visible on the q tip, but it is clearly brighter so hopefully it is an extremely thin layer (it looks rainbow like in few places so well under a micron) and hopefully it will come off with some toothpaste. Well, when I put that block on I was hoping it'll not have to come off for at least 6 months.






Now, just to make this clear to everyone. This is not because there is anything wrong with the block... It seems my distilled water is "too pure" so it picked up some copper ions then dropped them on the nickel block.

There is no way I'm going to get any proper pc cooling additive to prevent it this weekend and I have to get it done, so I'm going to get some anti corrosion automotive additive. A tiny amount should contain enough ions to prevent this happening to my gpu blocks.

Of course I could just not care about it... Its not hurting the performance in any way, but if it was shiny before and it's tarnished already... I'd like to "fix it".

 

[EarthDog]

so I'm going to get some anti corrosion automotive additive.

Antifreeze. That may already be in your garage.

 

[User5566]

Antifreeze. That may already be in your garage.

Yes, exactly Sadly there seems to be no antifreeze with no die added, nor any additives that contain only the anticorrosion stuff locally... So I'm very reluctant to just pour straight antifreeze into my loop on the account of the die staining the acrylic.

I might just add a pinch of sodium bicarbonate to raise the pH. Copper ions are insoluble at basic pH. Then I'll get something online later.

After spending a good half an hour with an old toothbrush and toothpaste most of what was between the fins got removed, but the top and bottom still had nasty stains. I did try vinegar, but with no difference (which kind of confirmed to me this is very thin copper plating). Eventually I used green scotchbrite clone and I managed to get almost all of it off. If I'm bothered by the slight loss of shine I might polish it in the future. For now I'm fine with it.




I hope it doesn't do exactly the same in next few days.

Did anyone else had something like this happen so quickly?

 

[Woomack]

I highly doubt it's because of distilled water. If it was clean, then it shouldn't react with anything in these products. As I said, I had loops with only demineralized water (not even 100% pure distilled), and nothing happened for long months. Another thing is that it takes time to grow anything in the loop. It's not a few days, but more like a month.

You can also use vinegar mixed with water, as it cleans metals and removes stains. As simple as it sounds, it cleans copper and nickel surfaces pretty well.

 

[EarthDog]

Did anyone else had something like this happen so quickly?

Never.

 

[User5566]

I highly doubt it's because of distilled water. If it was clean, then it shouldn't react with anything in these products.

You can doubt but it's exactly what happens if you use truly deionised /distilled water and everything is super clean. The fact it didn't happen to you means your deionised water wasn't deionised enough or you've managed to contaminate it sufficiently with enough ions to prevent it picking up more.

It is a well established fact of chemistry extra pure water dissolves tiny amounts of copper (approximately 1 ug per liter if the entire container is pure copper). I did some research following this and I found lots of reputable resources.

Here are titles of some scientific articles you can read (just Google them) about it:
- Nanometer-Scale Corrosion of Copper in De-Aerated Deionized Water.
- Etching of Copper in Deionized Water Rinse
- Corrosion of Copper by Water: by Peter Szakalos, Gunnar Hultquist, and G. Wikmark at KTH Royal Institute of Technology

It is also mentioned on this very site in this article https://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/

I've heard about it before, but I thought it was hogwash... Clearly it isn't.

The best way to prevent it? Raise a pH to 8at least. It can be done by adding some antifreeze or a good pinch of sodium bicarbonate.

As I said, I had loops with only demineralized water (not even 100% pure distilled), and nothing happened for long months. Another thing is that it takes time to grow anything in the loop. It's not a few days, but more like a month.

This is so wrong.... I've been driving for 20 years and I never had a car crash. Clearly it's impossible to have one right? Don't mistake your experience in very specific circumstances with a whole range of possibilities.

If there is copper present in solution at pH lower than 7, even ever so slightly it will plate all metals such as iron, nickel etc as you watch. It is basic chemistry.

It takes minutes, not months. If copper ion concentration is extremely low like in my case it takes days. Look up an elementary school chemistry experiment called "copper plating a steel nail".

You can also use vinegar mixed with water, as it cleans metals and removes stains. As simple as it sounds, it cleans copper and nickel surfaces pretty well.

This is true, if you have lots and lots of time. Normal strength vinegar will remove nanometers of copper per hour so putting it in a jar for a couple of days/weeks would be a good idea depending on how much copper plating you're removing. Also don't forget to agitate it. However, most people cleaning waterblocks are not removing copper plating, but merely copper oxide powder that got stuck to the surface. Vinegar can help with that much faster.

But I prefer mechanical methods such as toothpaste and an old toothbrush.