-
Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!
Design a HSF
- Thread starter Tbird man
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Location
- U.S. East Coast
I'd like to see an all copper hs shaped and mounted like the Alpha PAL8045 but with thin close vertical fins with a fan on the side next to the AGP slot pushing air through the fins towards the top of the case and ps exhaust fans.
OP
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2001
- Location
- Boone, NC a.k.a THE BOONIES
- Thread Starter
- #123
i'm gonna go around town lookin for a machine shop to do this. i think ill try my idea first
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2001
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario, Canada
1Time said:
Yes, lets take the hot air from back of video card and blow to heatsink..
I'll i think is that just build a reasonable sized heatsink with 2 low profile fan ,,, once blowing and one sucking and air duct those.
cusil is worst than copper quoted propertiessonny said:
were wrong
http://www.overclockers.com/articles305/
OP
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2001
- Location
- Boone, NC a.k.a THE BOONIES
- Thread Starter
- #126
heres an idea use a peice of copper and some VERY hevy gauge stranded copper wire (or maybe alot of smaller gague) solder the wire to the center of the plate and fray the rest to about 80mm dia and build a structure to a fan blowing on it. this was inspired by a pervious idea but this one has more wires/surfacearea
OP
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2001
- Location
- Boone, NC a.k.a THE BOONIES
- Thread Starter
- #127
here
Last edited:
OP
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2001
- Location
- Boone, NC a.k.a THE BOONIES
- Thread Starter
- #128
anyone else got any ideas lets hear them
The large black vertical lines represent the HEat pipe, same technology as seen in the coolermaster hhc-001
The tin lines ate the thin copper fins. THe fan will be mounted vertically blowing accross the fins.
Im no engineer but this seems a fairly effective design.
There will be 4 heat pipes mounted parallell to each other, this will provide greater heat transferr alonw with adding stability to the HS
The tin lines ate the thin copper fins. THe fan will be mounted vertically blowing accross the fins.
Im no engineer but this seems a fairly effective design.
There will be 4 heat pipes mounted parallell to each other, this will provide greater heat transferr alonw with adding stability to the HS
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Location
- Southern CA
Not to be a jerk guys...but what exactly are you trying to really accomplish here?
Do you think your going to really come up with an air cooled HS design that's going to be home-made(LAUGH), cheap, and more effective than say a swiftech, or alpha?
Other than purely academic chit-chat, the whole idea is somewhat far-fetched.
We're pretty much already banging on the doors of simple tech air cooling C/W.
Why don't you try expanding the cooling frontier instead with some Heat pipe designs?
Do you think your going to really come up with an air cooled HS design that's going to be home-made(LAUGH), cheap, and more effective than say a swiftech, or alpha?
Other than purely academic chit-chat, the whole idea is somewhat far-fetched.
We're pretty much already banging on the doors of simple tech air cooling C/W.
Why don't you try expanding the cooling frontier instead with some Heat pipe designs?
OK then
YOu obviously didnt read my post Directly above yourse.
ALso why do you think this will never get made? SOme people 'like me for instance' are quite skillled in all the machine aspects of constructing materials such as this.
I in fact have all the tools required for production of a Heatsink of my desigh in my shed at home.
Including milling equiptment. DOnt be so pesamistic, And no I dont think that the first Heat sink we design will compare with a good alpha but with trial and error we can accomplish this. This forum community consists of manny skilled engineers, machinests and general overclockers who have extended knowledge in the area of HS design.
YOur opinion is flawed.
ANd I know I cant spell.
YOu obviously didnt read my post Directly above yourse.
ALso why do you think this will never get made? SOme people 'like me for instance' are quite skillled in all the machine aspects of constructing materials such as this.
I in fact have all the tools required for production of a Heatsink of my desigh in my shed at home.
Including milling equiptment. DOnt be so pesamistic, And no I dont think that the first Heat sink we design will compare with a good alpha but with trial and error we can accomplish this. This forum community consists of manny skilled engineers, machinests and general overclockers who have extended knowledge in the area of HS design.
YOur opinion is flawed.
ANd I know I cant spell.
Tbird man: this may enhance your design.
as far as i read, there's no theorical calculation (except the dimension) in this topic, well:
i have a theory that may support any of your HS&F, but it MUST has FINS.
this theory based on modified motorcycle's air-cooled engine.
fyi: there are 2 types of engine cooling device: air-cooled/fins or water-cooled/radiator.
theory 1: the larger the fin surface, the more heat released to the air.
theory 2: to maximize the surface, make holes in the fin.
theory 3: the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension.
(i know you can't understand my poor english, i'll try to make an example)
example: D=diametre, T=Thickness
i'll presume:
regular HSF normally has 15-25 fins. well, let's make it 20 fins.
fin dimension, length:80 mm height:40 mm thick:1.5 mm.
let's take 1 fin to calculate: (2x80x40)+(2x40x1.5)+(1x80x1.5)=6640 mm2.
why the last one is 1x80x1.5? because the bottom side is not touched by air.
total fins dimension: 6640x20=132800 mm2.
i'll make 20 holes in a fin, let say the diameter is 2 mm. so, the surface i took away is PIx(D/2)x(D/2)=3.14x1x1=3.14 mm2, since the fin is 3D, it has 2 side. so, 3.14x2=6.28 mm2.
the side effect of taking the circle dimension is also made another dimension --> it is the dimension of thickness! (cylindric): PIxDxT=3.14x2x1.5=9.42 mm2.
so, i got 9.42-6.28=3.14 mm2 more dimension.
based on theory #3, why "the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension" because it will equals negative value if it's not. notice: 9.42-6.28=+3.14 mm2 <- positive value. total dimension i have in a fin is 20(holes)x3.14=62.8 mm. i have 20 fins, so, 62.8x20=1256 mm2.
total dimension of the fins is 132800+1256=134056 mm2.
this is just an example, to create the optimum solution, you guys should calculate the maximum value of the final dimension (including the number of holes).
summary:
1. i got more dimension (ofcourse!)
2. it also maximize air flow!
3. i think designing a HS&F requires a lot of calculations (material, airflow, environment, surface (this is what i can donate), angle, temperature, etc)
3. this is my first post, sorry for any mistakes and i hope i can be accepted in this community.
4. sorry (again) for my english, i'm learning! ^_^
as far as i read, there's no theorical calculation (except the dimension) in this topic, well:
i have a theory that may support any of your HS&F, but it MUST has FINS.
this theory based on modified motorcycle's air-cooled engine.
fyi: there are 2 types of engine cooling device: air-cooled/fins or water-cooled/radiator.
theory 1: the larger the fin surface, the more heat released to the air.
theory 2: to maximize the surface, make holes in the fin.
theory 3: the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension.
(i know you can't understand my poor english, i'll try to make an example)
example: D=diametre, T=Thickness
i'll presume:
regular HSF normally has 15-25 fins. well, let's make it 20 fins.
fin dimension, length:80 mm height:40 mm thick:1.5 mm.
let's take 1 fin to calculate: (2x80x40)+(2x40x1.5)+(1x80x1.5)=6640 mm2.
why the last one is 1x80x1.5? because the bottom side is not touched by air.
total fins dimension: 6640x20=132800 mm2.
i'll make 20 holes in a fin, let say the diameter is 2 mm. so, the surface i took away is PIx(D/2)x(D/2)=3.14x1x1=3.14 mm2, since the fin is 3D, it has 2 side. so, 3.14x2=6.28 mm2.
the side effect of taking the circle dimension is also made another dimension --> it is the dimension of thickness! (cylindric): PIxDxT=3.14x2x1.5=9.42 mm2.
so, i got 9.42-6.28=3.14 mm2 more dimension.
based on theory #3, why "the hole dimension MUST < cylindric dimension" because it will equals negative value if it's not. notice: 9.42-6.28=+3.14 mm2 <- positive value. total dimension i have in a fin is 20(holes)x3.14=62.8 mm. i have 20 fins, so, 62.8x20=1256 mm2.
total dimension of the fins is 132800+1256=134056 mm2.
this is just an example, to create the optimum solution, you guys should calculate the maximum value of the final dimension (including the number of holes).
summary:
1. i got more dimension (ofcourse!)
2. it also maximize air flow!
3. i think designing a HS&F requires a lot of calculations (material, airflow, environment, surface (this is what i can donate), angle, temperature, etc)
3. this is my first post, sorry for any mistakes and i hope i can be accepted in this community.
4. sorry (again) for my english, i'm learning! ^_^
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Location
- in a magical field
Well, I have a simple idea that could probably be done by someone with machine equipment, or at least at a local machine shop.
This was my thought process: don't try to re-invent the wheel but improve on what is currently available. So I thought "what is the best HS that is simple enough for someone to make?" It had to be 1 material only (no Cu/Al hybrids.) Well, the answer is obvious: the Millenium Glaciator.
How does it get such good performance, especially for being 60mm only? It is milled from one copper piece, so no joints to hinder heat transfer, and this is also do-able at a machine shop. It has good thermal mass, meaning that while it is not a "thin-fin" design, it has lots of mass to absorb heat, with a balanced amount of surface area to expel it.
My design for: socket A, using motherboard mounting holes b/c of its massive weight. I will describe it verbally then try to get some pics up.
The base would cover the entire AMD "no-mount zone" with cut-outs if necessary for the more popular boards that don't conform. Mounting method would be the same as the Alpha8045 or the SwiftyMCX462.
Rising from the base would be fins of equal spacing and size to the Glaciator. The fins would run across the socket (same direction as socket mounting tabs.) The base area between the fins would be cut in toward the center but not farther than the mounting holes. The center would be as a solid column rising up directly above the die to the bottom of the fan, since this area has less airflow anyway might as well have more mass.
After rising up to the AMD recommended minimum clearance height (adjusted for popular mobo's), the fins would go square out to form a 92mm square. Yes, it will have a 90 or 92 mm fan, big CFM, low noise.
The fins parallel to the socket lugs would be easy to do this with; to make the top 92x92mm, perpendicular fins would have to be milled (or soldered on if necessary) to the side-most fins on the sides where the mounting screws are. The fan would mount to brackets attached to the outermost fins.
It would weigh a ton I am sure, but oh well. This is just a "more is better" heatsink, but I believe it would be effective. I know it is hard to describe verbally, but I think I made sense (mostly )What do you think?
This was my thought process: don't try to re-invent the wheel but improve on what is currently available. So I thought "what is the best HS that is simple enough for someone to make?" It had to be 1 material only (no Cu/Al hybrids.) Well, the answer is obvious: the Millenium Glaciator.
How does it get such good performance, especially for being 60mm only? It is milled from one copper piece, so no joints to hinder heat transfer, and this is also do-able at a machine shop. It has good thermal mass, meaning that while it is not a "thin-fin" design, it has lots of mass to absorb heat, with a balanced amount of surface area to expel it.
My design for: socket A, using motherboard mounting holes b/c of its massive weight. I will describe it verbally then try to get some pics up.
The base would cover the entire AMD "no-mount zone" with cut-outs if necessary for the more popular boards that don't conform. Mounting method would be the same as the Alpha8045 or the SwiftyMCX462.
Rising from the base would be fins of equal spacing and size to the Glaciator. The fins would run across the socket (same direction as socket mounting tabs.) The base area between the fins would be cut in toward the center but not farther than the mounting holes. The center would be as a solid column rising up directly above the die to the bottom of the fan, since this area has less airflow anyway might as well have more mass.
After rising up to the AMD recommended minimum clearance height (adjusted for popular mobo's), the fins would go square out to form a 92mm square. Yes, it will have a 90 or 92 mm fan, big CFM, low noise.
The fins parallel to the socket lugs would be easy to do this with; to make the top 92x92mm, perpendicular fins would have to be milled (or soldered on if necessary) to the side-most fins on the sides where the mounting screws are. The fan would mount to brackets attached to the outermost fins.It would weigh a ton I am sure, but oh well. This is just a "more is better" heatsink, but I believe it would be effective. I know it is hard to describe verbally, but I think I made sense (mostly
)What do you think?
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2001
- Location
- newfoundland
A lot of thing are getting lost in these " 5 " pages of decussion..
why not set some rules up for any following posts..
i.e
H/S size has to be no bigger than (example 80mmX80mm ?)
material " " " ( copper, alinum, jeeze a pepsi can i dont know)
mounting has to be for Intel and AMD (have to please everyone)
stuff like that.. remember the more complex dosent always meen better..
K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid
hheeh lets see if this post gets flamed
why not set some rules up for any following posts..
i.e
H/S size has to be no bigger than (example 80mmX80mm ?)
material " " " ( copper, alinum, jeeze a pepsi can i dont know)
mounting has to be for Intel and AMD (have to please everyone)
stuff like that.. remember the more complex dosent always meen better..
K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid
hheeh lets see if this post gets flamed
OP
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2001
- Location
- Boone, NC a.k.a THE BOONIES
- Thread Starter
- #136
I agree with you i believe it should be made of Cu beacuse Al just won't cut it for hi performance. also we should design it to use lugs or bolts or perhaps a lug to bolt adapter. i like the hole idea that is paryt of the reason i used than in my latest Bi-fan design.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2001
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Our own heatsink design is great but...
Will it be all out, pure performance heatsink ? Well than,,, heck with all the fans, lets have Alpha 8045 and place a full sized vaccum sucking air off it (hehe i know someone might try vaccum now ) Anyways,, this isn't so practicle...
Since my IQ is too low to design a well performing heatsink...
I am sure many of you 'pro' can design something great but...
low noise/quiet cooling solution is best. You can always add super high RPM fan to make performance better. But I would surely like to see some high performing heatsink with quiet fan(s)
is great but...Will it be all out, pure performance heatsink ? Well than,,, heck with all the fans, lets have Alpha 8045 and place a full sized vaccum sucking air off it
(hehe i know someone might try vaccum now ) Anyways,, this isn't so practicle...Since my IQ is too low to design a well performing heatsink...
I am sure many of you 'pro' can design something great but...
low noise/quiet cooling solution is best. You can always add super high RPM fan to make performance better. But I would surely like to see some high performing heatsink with quiet fan(s)
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2001
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Whatever heatsink we design wont perform that great inside of a close case.
I think it would be better off design a great heatsink that we can do air duct'able? design.
Just like one of my first design I showed off in this thread...
Alpha PEP66 look a like... but with way more fins (fins with hole would be a bonus?) and two low profile fan. Like those 60x60x15 blue fans, i forgot the name,,, anyways it seems to produce good enough cfm. So, one fan blows from side,,, one fan suck from one side to really get the air moving well.
And say you have a case like Antec, where there is already 2x80mm hole at back of case. It would be great. use one for out and one for in. 7volt mod to 80mm fan would do but i think only one fan for intake @ 7volt would do well.
I definitely think that if using air duct design, fan sucking air is best way. Just like Alpha design. I would wanna have hot air from heatsink blown to other parts of hardwares.
Just wanted to say something... why wont damned AMD make heatplate !!! something like one from K6 series CPU
Let's build out own heatplate too.. yes measuring high of the core could be difficult but... i am it is do'able hehe
or make it really really bit lower and place a super thin robber to fill that gap. so when pressed down by the clipping force, it would make heatplate contact well? no? bad idea? sorry
Have a great day to you all !
I think it would be better off design a great heatsink that we can do air duct'able? design.
Just like one of my first design I showed off in this thread...
Alpha PEP66 look a like... but with way more fins (fins with hole would be a bonus?) and two low profile fan. Like those 60x60x15 blue fans, i forgot the name,,, anyways it seems to produce good enough cfm. So, one fan blows from side,,, one fan suck from one side to really get the air moving well.
And say you have a case like Antec, where there is already 2x80mm hole at back of case. It would be great. use one for out and one for in. 7volt mod to 80mm fan would do but i think only one fan for intake @ 7volt would do well.
I definitely think that if using air duct design, fan sucking air is best way. Just like Alpha design. I would wanna have hot air from heatsink blown to other parts of hardwares.
Just wanted to say something... why wont damned AMD make heatplate !!! something like one from K6 series CPU
Let's build out own heatplate too.. yes measuring high of the core could be difficult but... i am it is do'able
heheor make it really really bit lower and place a super thin robber to fill that gap. so when pressed down by the clipping force, it would make heatplate contact well? no? bad idea? sorry
Have a great day to you all !
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
Here's another theory to throw out there...heru said:
To maximize surface area, make the fins rough instead of perfectly flat.
As long as we are attaching the fins to a base (not extruding the fins out of the base), you should be able to take some rough sand paper to it to get it nice and bumpy.
Also, is there any way of forcing the heat from the center of the heat sink (where the die is) out to the edges of the heat sink? I was wondering because there is very little air coming from the center of the fan, and most of it is around the outside. So, if we could force the heat out to the edges somehow, it would be much more efficient at getting rid of the heat because the area where the most air flow is would have the most heat from the CPU.
Of course, another solution would be to find a diffrent way to mount the fan so that it blows air over the die directly rather than on the edges of the sink.
JigPu
