FEATURED Dyes

[GreenJelly]

I challenge the Idea that ALL Dyes are bad. There seems to be something going on. Either the TYPE of Dye, Temps, Algae, fluid choice, or all of the above may create the issue. I used Primo Ice with dye and had 0 issues. After 2 years I switched fluid and feared that the dye may create issues, so I switched to clear fluid. With that said, has anyone actually pin pointed the dyes in question, associations with fluid choices and dies, and other things to find out what is causing this in some machines but not in all?

Ohh BTW, I am no longer willing to try dyes in My Machine because of the stories. They got me running scarred. I wonder if I am afraid of something that is not the problem

 

[CompuTamer]

Just from reading around, it appears to be the really thick dyed coolants that cause issues, and the temperature of the loops appears to have a pretty big impact on the way the dye breaks down. If your computer is idle most of the time, you won't have many issues as they dye won't break down nearly as fast. If you have a computer that's folding 24/7 the dye is more likely to break down quicker and stop things up.

I'm NOT a WC expert though. This is just what i've picked up from reading around on here.

 

[Daemonkin]

I bet you think dyes are liquids?

Dyes are a solid that are mashed up to a fine substance and then suspended in a solution.

Think of sweet tea. When I make it, I boil sugar, water, and tea leaves together. When I drink it, I don't detect sugar crystals or tea leaves. If I sit it out and let it evaporate, though, the jug will have sugar and tea leaves left in it.

Same principle with dyes. As water evaporates from your loop it leaves what ever substance the dye was made from. Only now it is back in its solid form and will build up on anything that acts like a filter, I.E. water blocks.

Like many others, you get caught up in an example instead of paying attention to the rule.

It's like saying you know a guy that smoked 3 packs a day, but then died of liver failure. This means smoking isn't dangerous.

 

[hackintosh]

As a person who used dyes in their system, I highly reccomend that you do not use them. After about 2 months I took my system apart and the tubes were lines, and all my blocks had build up in them.
Had I not been rebuilding my system I prob wouldn't have looked and noticed and over time I am sure my temps would have kept getting higher and higher

 

[GreenJelly]

Allot of things can be explained for build up. Especially in the first run of systems (which is probably when people have problems). As for Dye beign a solid, it is before you mix it with water then it becomes a solution, and just as the copper and other metals enter your fluid through the process of ionization, so will Dye.

The question is, if the Dye itself is unstable (breaks down), and thus creates a goo. The second thing is, if the water becomes saturated with particles and starts depositing them, does this lead to a goo?

I am not certain regarding this issue. It FEELS to me that there is something else going on, and/or a specific dye is the cause. I personally recommend color tubing anyways. Plus I think it looks better.

 

[Daemonkin]

The goo could have other contaminates, I don't think any one will dispute that, but how many clogged waterblocks can you show me that were running just water and a biocide?

 

[Conumdrum]

Yea, I'll leave the mystery of whats going on to other users. Let them experiment all they want.

Distilled and a biocide, colored tubing all the way.

I think colored tubing looks just fine.

 

[muddocktor]

Yep, that tubing looks pretty damn fine to me too. I personally go with either black or white Primoflex Pro LRT.

 

[Conumdrum]

Only 4' 2" for the whole loop. Pretty efficient.

 

[Owenator]

I agree with Conumdrum on the colored tubing if you want color.

I've never been brave enogh to use opaque (solid color) tubing because you can't see inside to know if all the bubbles are gone.

Another point of info on dyes. Once I was using UV cold cahodes to make my tubing coils "glow" and the UV light actually helped the algae grow.

 

[GreenJelly]

I really dont like the idea of pure water. Especially distilled water as it is very corrosive. The anti freeze for modern engines is made for mixed metals, and will glow under a black light (even at small amounts). There are other anti-corrosive materials that will prevent issues.

I would bet that most "goo" is discolored dead/alive algae (or other biological) or other contaminates such as those left from tubes, dirt, lint and dust... Lets face it computers are Dust magnets, and I am positive few people take the time they should before opening up their res for refilling to prevent dust and other crud to enter the loop. Also, little tube bits, and PVC can be a major issue.

Maybe a reaction in chemicals. A break down of the detergents used to reduce surface tension. Granted to say there are allot of reasons for what is happening.

I don't see many dies becoming gooey in concentration, my gut tells me that something else is usually the culprit. Given the fact that most new water coolers use dyes, and us older water coolers choose to use colored tubes (since the dyes generally get ugly over time), the correlation between rookie errors and the use of dyes is likely.

Has anyone actually taken any of these dyes and super heated the fluid to see what happens, or abuse the heck out of them? Has anyone who has set up a very controlled experiment gotten these "goo" results?

Don't get me wrong. I would not use Dyes anyways. After time the dyes seem to loose their luster, and with evaporation, tubes becoming old and discoloration, etc... They are a bad choice.

 

[Bijiont]

Especially distilled water as it is very corrosive.

You lost me there. . . last I checked unless they really screw up the distilling process it's not very corrosive. I know DI is very corrosive more so with certain metals but your standard distilled water is actually more ph balanced. It all comes down to how it was processed and how "clean" they get the water.

To reply to your OP, honestly I tried it and ended up replacing everything because it destroyed my blocks among other things. I found it best just to use color tubing and go with distilled water with your choice of killer.

It would be interesting to exiperiment with color dynes but honestly I think most of the water cooling community has written them off as not being worth it.

 

[GreenJelly]

I have allot of Idea's on fluids, and some actual test results of common additives and such. There has been allot of testing in this area, and yet the debate continues. So much so that talking about fluids will doom a thread to hijack hell

For performance, Distilled water (with a very, very minute amount of detergent) will perform better then anything else. I think I should say that Distilled Water is more corrosive then Distilled Water with some modern anti-corrosive chemicals. Its one of comparisons rather then absolutes.

 

[Conumdrum]

Okay I'll bite. How does detergent help?

 

[Bijiont]

Okay I'll bite. How does detergent help?

I am wondering this as well because much like oil all the detergent does is help keep the organic soiling from caking on your engine for the most part.

So I am wondering why detergent would help distilled water if you are using proper killing componets (PTNuke, Killcoil, silver fittings) there should be nothing in the loop to clean.

 

[Daemonkin]

I restate my challenge.

If, as you suggest, it's contaminates such as dust and dead algae, then where are the clogged water blocks of people that use distilled water and biocide?

I'm sorry, but the data doesn't support your hypothesis. I've only seen two types of loops with clogs:

1. A loop with dyes.
2. A loop that formed algae. This one has usually been improper biocide usage.

 

[GreenJelly]

Okay I'll bite. How does detergent help?

Essentially pure water will... Water molecules bonds will... Ok, I can not possibly explain this as much as I would like...

Ok, I have read allot about this topic and have seen some fine statements regarding all of this. With that said, when I attempt to write what an explanation, things it will either be really bad and/or really long.

Google "detergent surface tension water cooling"

 

[Higdon]

An arguement telling us to figure it out or look something up will not suffice. The only proper measure of understanding is being able to teach it.

 

[hokiealumnus]

I restate my challenge.

If, as you suggest, it's contaminates such as dust and dead algae, then where are the clogged water blocks of people that use distilled water and biocide?

I'm sorry, but the data doesn't support your hypothesis. I've only seen two types of loops with clogs:

1. A loop with dyes.
2. A loop that formed algae. This one has usually been improper biocide usage.

This. The only loops I see having clogging problems are those with dyes (or those suffering from heavy galvanic corrosion due to the presence of aluminum or, as mentioned, algae due to user error, but those are other problems altogether). A couple years worth of anecdotal evidence has shown me the biggest thing that causes problems is dye. I have yet to see someone running distilled + biocide clog up their water blocks with dye-colored goo from dust or algae (barring user error...algae doesn't just happen if people use a biocide like they should).

 

[Higdon]

Stop making sense Hokiealumnus, that is not welcome here. Shame on you.