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[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
My FX8320 is kinda old. It still runs like a boss on my ASUS Crosshair V.
I had my CPU and GPU both watercooled. Got sick of watercooling and ripped out the GPU cooler when I upgraded my card a few years back. I now want to rip out my triple 120 radiator for the CPU and go to air cooling, and get a smaller tower. This full tower is loud, even at low fan settings, and too huge. I'm done with that madness.

If I can do mATX in a sick case, great, but I'm guessing mid-tower is my best bet for some OCing room.

I'm thinking about picking up the ryzen 1600 AF chip to get the best bang for my buck. I can always upgrade later, so would like to pick up a motherboard that gives me that option.

Shoot away at ideas, if anyone has the time to educate me. I knew my OCing like the back of my hand 10+ years ago, but I am heavily outdated. I knew DDR and DDR2, not sure I OCed much at all on DDR3.

Please let me know if there are new basics to learn. I just recall FSB, multiplier, RAM timings, FSB to RAM ratio, cpu voltage, dimm voltage, NB chipset voltage. And for GPUs they seem so much more complex... I'll leave that as is for now.

Goal is a new Mobo/CPU/RAM combo, and a nice case. I'm going for AMD. I usually do (no, I'm not biased really... just leaned AMD 8/10 times).
 

Zerileous

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
What is your budget looking like? Are you planning to keep the R9 or get a new GPU? How old is the PSU, will you be needing to replace it, or just looking for CPU/Motherboard/memory?

People have been having luck with this board https://www.newegg.com/msi-b450m-pro-vdh-max/p/N82E16813144265, one of our members has had a 12c CPU running on it.

Something like this will do fine for memory https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232767?&quicklink=true (should work okay with the 1600af but also take to a newer CPU without holding it back.

So all in you'd be at $70 ram + $80 mobo + $85 cpu = $235 for a pretty solid system.

Yes there is a lot of new basics to learn. Things like FSB and multiplier still work pretty much the same. Most of the NB is now on the CPU itself, so increasing RAM speed is more dependent on CPU than board (although the board does play a role). The Ryzens run at a bclk (aka FSB) of 100Mhz, and don't like to have it messed with. Multipliers are unlocked. In terms of single core performance, it is difficult to beat the stock boost with an overclock, depending on the chip, although the 1600AF probably does have some headroom in it. The higher end parts don't respond that well to manual OC and behave more like GPUs: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc.

Most GPUs you can start by increasing the power budget and assigning a more aggressive fan curve. But if you're looking for quiet you might not want to do that. Then you can overclock by setting frequency, but that frequency is more of a target for the algorithm than an actual set clock.
 
OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
Thanks for the info.
Honestly, I don't have a budget. I could spend $300, or $2000 if I wanted, but I don't put value into a PC like that anymore these days. I'm mostly going for the best bang for my buck right now and that's why I'm starting with the 1600 AF. But... I definitely want room to grow to the latest and greatest AMD chip if I choose to upgrade.

For now, I'm going to hang onto the R9 fury. I haven't done PC gaming in forever. I mostly only play Marvel Contest of Champions on the phone (do not get into this game).

My PSU is old, but it's a Corsair 520w modular... in fact, all of my specs should still be consistent with what's shown in my sig, except for my SSD and sound card. I'll probably go for a bigger SSD as well since my current one is pretty worn out according to readings.
 
OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
I came to the same place you are. Take a look at the Fractal Meshify C mini for a good compromise between room and space economy. It will take an air cooler up to 172mm tall and can use mATX or minit itx motherboards. Great air flow and good sound baffeling.

Motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/msi-b450m-pro-vdh-max/p/N82E16813144265
Same one Zerileous linked for $20 less, also from NewEgg haha... man I miss the old style NewEgg!
So that's the go to board, huh. And it can handle most of the latest and greatest AMD chips, and room for future chips you think?

Shows how old we are getting, moving away from the "noise" and "size" now. Man, my prime days on here go back 15-20 years! Will never forget spending 12+ hour days trying to tighten up RAM timings on my NF7-S.

Just last week (don't hate me for this), I finally threw out my OCZ DDR Booster. I just had too much old stuff laying around and it was time to say goodbye.

Right now my first order of business is motherboard and case, then the rest can fall in line, so thanks!
trents, I really like that case!! No more 5.25" -- that's what I like to see!

*EDIT*
1. Any limits to GPUs not fitting?
2. MSI PRO B450M PRO-VDH -- MAX vs PRO?
 
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trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
That motherboard I linked will handle even the Ryzen 3900x at stock. One of our regular participants, DaveB, is running that combo and says "no problem."

The Meshify C min supports a maximum GPU length of "315 mm in default configuration." Not sure what default configuration means but I suspect it means that to fit in a 315mm GPU you must leave off a fan in the lower front panel fan hole. So if you put a fan in that lower spot you would need to subtract 25mm from the maximum GPU length.

As far as the motherboard goes you would want this one: https://www.newegg.com/msi-b450m-pro-vdh-max/p/N82E16813144265 "Max" means it has microcode to support the latest AMD CPUs as well as the older Ryzens and the APUs. The non Max boards had a bios chip of only 16mb and MSI (and other manufacturers, as well) had to drop support for some of the APU processors in order to fit in the code for the newer stuff.

Looks like the processor you have chosen is supported out of the box with the first bios release.


Edit: I was correct. 315 mm max for GPU with no lower front fan. I measured it in my own case. So do you know yet what video card you will be using? That length limit would allow for essentially all twin fan cards but preclude most triple fan cards.
 

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OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
Thanks for the info! I'm near ready to pull the trigger on that board and that Fractal Design mATX case. Looks very appealing.

OK I want that board. Right now I have the R9 Fury and a 1x pcie Soundblaster Z sound card, so I have enough on that board to support my setup. I could always dump the soundcard too (for now).
The R9 Fury is a triple fan design, so it might be long. That's why I was curious. I measure it @ roughly 12" which is just over 300mm.
It's this one here - SAPPHIRE NITRO Radeon R9 Fury. Specs say 12.09" there, but I think that includes the L part of the bracket. I didn't measure from there. I measured from PCI bracket where it meets the PCI slot.

Sounds like I can make it fit. It's just that a few years back I built a gaming machine for a friend and found out the hard way when his GPU didn't fit his case. I had to RMA and pay restocking on it. In my years of building, I'd never had to think about GPU size vs case, but nowadays you do need to consider it.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Did you get that we have been talking about two different Meshify cases in this thread? There is the meshfy c and there is the meshify c mini. The former is mid tower and the latter is a sub mid tower but larger than a mini itx case.
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Just last week (don't hate me for this), I finally threw out my OCZ DDR Booster. I just had too much old stuff laying around and it was time to say goodbye.

I hate you for that.
Don't throw that old stuff out. I will pay you for it, just shoot me a message.
FWIW, I have 2 boosters already, but I still would have jumped on that.

~Scotty :)
 

DaveB

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Right now I have the R9 Fury and a 1x pcie Soundblaster Z sound card, so I have enough on that board to support my setup. I could always dump the soundcard too (for now).
The R9 Fury is a triple fan design, so it might be long. That's why I was curious. I measure it @ roughly 12" which is just over 300mm.

Did you get that we have been talking about two different Meshify cases in this thread? There is the meshfy c and there is the meshify c mini. The former is mid tower and the latter is a sub mid tower but larger than a mini itx case.

The specifications state that both the Fractal Meshify C and the Meshify C Mini can fit a GPU up to 315mm or 12.4".
 
OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
I hate you for that.
Don't throw that old stuff out. I will pay you for it, just shoot me a message.
FWIW, I have 2 boosters already, but I still would have jumped on that.

~Scotty :)
I hated myself while throwing it out. Trust me... and I just threw it out man. I held onto it for 15 years too long, but a few days too shy! I even thought about listing stuff on the forums here for FREE + shipping, but then the bulk of what I have would sit around even longer.

I might have old Athlon II CPUs, or core2 duo stuff. If you want, let me know and I'll throw up a classifieds ad and just send it off. I'm older now, making multiple times more money than when I was young and in my prime here, so selling off when buying new I don't care as much for.

I remember when I used to buy new hardware every 2-6 months, and sell my old stuff and try to keep the difference minimal. Now I just want to get rid of stuff. :)

I do take old hardware and build ESXi hosts out of them. Right now using a spare FX 8320 as one server, and an i7 920 as another.

Did you get that we have been talking about two different Meshify cases in this thread? There is the meshfy c and there is the meshify c mini. The former is mid tower and the latter is a sub mid tower but larger than a mini itx case.

Yes, I'm interested in the smaller one since I don't see what I gain out of getting a bigger case. I don't plan on pushing overclocking the way I used to. Honestly, will probably just up the multi if anything.

------------------------

Is there much to gain out of going with CAS14 memory over CAS16? It's like a $50 jump on a 16GB set. I'm guessing it's not worth it, since again I don't plan on going crazy with OC.

Thanks so much for all of this!
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
I hated myself while throwing it out. Trust me... and I just threw it out man. I held onto it for 15 years too long, but a few days too shy! I even thought about listing stuff on the forums here for FREE + shipping, but then the bulk of what I have would sit around even longer.

I might have old Athlon II CPUs, or core2 duo stuff. If you want, let me know and I'll throw up a classifieds ad and just send it off. I'm older now, making multiple times more money than when I was young and in my prime here, so selling off when buying new I don't care as much for.

I remember when I used to buy new hardware every 2-6 months, and sell my old stuff and try to keep the difference minimal. Now I just want to get rid of stuff. :)

I do take old hardware and build ESXi hosts out of them. Right now using a spare FX 8320 as one server, and an i7 920 as another.



!
I totally understand. I am just a vintage hardware enthusiast. :)
FWIW, I am just west of Rochester NY, so shipping will be dirt cheap.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Very little to gain with going with low latency RAM and certainly not $50 worth of difference.

And you will likely be frustrated and disappointed with trying to overclock. There isn't much headroom and it's hard to improve on the stock performance because the complex power management AMD has built into the Ryzen chips keeps them very close to their max potential. The best thing you can do to maximize the performance is to use the best cooling you can afford as that will allow the cores to spend more time in turbo.

Cooler recommendations:
https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u14s/p/N82E16835608041

This is a great cooler and should not take up so much room but out of stock right now:
https://www.newegg.com/scythe-scmg-5100/p/13C-0004-00075

And this would fit and do a great job: https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u12a/p/13C-0005-00187

I know you want to get away from water but what about a 280mm AIO? That would likely give you the combination of good cooling without eating up all the space inside the case:
https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Liquid-...587083246&sprefix=280+mm+water,aps,207&sr=8-3 But watch the GPU length if you go with an AIO.

Great compact but powerful video card: https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-...tus-gp/p/N82E16814137504?Item=N82E16814137504
 
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OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
I totally understand. I am just a vintage hardware enthusiast. :)
FWIW, I am just west of Rochester NY, so shipping will be dirt cheap.
I'll keep you in mind, buddy. I also gave away a boatload of DDR RAM. Man, literally just last week. Sat around forever. I won't forget about you, though.

Very little to gain with going with low latency RAM and certainly not $50 worth of difference.

And you will likely be frustrated and disappointed with trying to overclock. There isn't much headroom and it's hard to improve on the stock performance because the complex power management AMD has built into the Ryzen chips keeps them very close to their max potential. The best thing you can do to maximize the performance is to use the best cooling you can afford as that will allow the cores to spend more time in turbo.

Cooler recommendations:
https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u14s/p/N82E16835608041

This is a great cooler and should not take up so much room but out of stock right now:
https://www.newegg.com/scythe-scmg-5100/p/13C-0004-00075

And this would fit and do a great job: https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u12a/p/13C-0005-00187

I know you want to get away from water but what about a 280mm AIO? That would likely give you the combination of good cooling without eating up all the space inside the case:
https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Liquid-...587083246&sprefix=280+mm+water,aps,207&sr=8-3 But watch the GPU length if you go with an AIO.

Great compact but powerful video card: https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-...tus-gp/p/N82E16814137504?Item=N82E16814137504

I'm not 100% against water, but it's the noise. I used to use those Vantec Tornado fans back in the day. I could run it max and be fine with it... 20 years ago. Now, I can't stand the sound of my 3x 120mm fans against my Thermochill HE. I think I have it tuned down to 5v too.

I don't need it super silent, but I definitely want it quiet.

How do you manipulate the tubes for AIO, or have you used something like that and fit it in a matx? Def looking at that fractal smaller tower.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
In the case we're looking at, you can put a 2x120 rad in the front or in the top and a 2x140 rad in the front. Right now I have a 2x120 rad in the front with the hoses at the bottom so that any air in the system will collect at the top of the rad and not be picked up by the return hose. The hoses are long enough for the pump to reach the socket area. When I had a longer video card installed, one hose went under the rear of the card and one over the top. It worked but not any slack left over. Now with a one fan card installed they both reach easily.

As far as noise goes, with PWM fans you should be able to tune the fan curve in bios to make them very quiet under light loads. And the case is designed such that much of the fan noise is blocked by the acoustics.
 
OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
You know something, I could always start with stock cooling, put the build together and get started. For now you guys got me interested in the board, and case, and those were the big decisions right now. Will find 16gb RAM, and other odds and ends and get started soon. I'll LYK once I put orders in. Right now I'm focused on replacing my wireless mouse since I work from home all day and it's acting up. Trying to get my office setup nice since I'm in there all day!!
 
OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
I bit the bullet. Paid a little extra for the RAM b/c it would be nice to get some nice cosmetics out of it and $$ isn't that big of an issue. The board was not easily available wherever I looked, so I had to go with newegg 3rd party and pay the extra shipping. Here's the rundown so far:

NewEgg:
Crucial P1 1TB 3D NAND NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD - CT1000P1SSD8 - $119.99
G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-16GTZR - $99.99
Fractal Design Meshify C Mini Black Micro ATX High-Airflow Compact Tinted Tempered Glass Window Mid Tower Computer Case - $89.99
Total $344.59 after tax and shipping

NewEgg Third Party:
MSI PRO B450M PRO-VDH MAX AM4 AMD B450 SATA 6Gb/s Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $114.83 after tax/ship

Amazon:
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 6-Core, 12-Thread Unlocked 65W Desktop Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler (YD1600BBAFBOX) - $92.12 after tax/freeship


I have a spare brand new PSU here @ home. And I'm going to pull out my R9 fury from my current rig (and put something cheap in place of it just so I don't have to break down that machine for now).

Thanks for the help! These parts will take time to get here. It's not like it used to be where everything from newegg came to my place within 24 hours b/c they had a warehouse in NJ (I'm in NY)... and COVID, so yeah it'll be delayed.

I'll update if I pick up anything else and once it's all put together. I didn't decide on cooling yet. Also wondering if any of my spare AM3 coolers would work, no rush though.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
The AM3 coolers will not work without and adapter for AM4 unless they are the kind the hook onto the nubbins of the socket frame. Which make and model of the R9 Fury do you have? Gonna be a tight fit I think.

Keep us posted.
 
OP
g0dM@n

[email protected]

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
The AM3 coolers will not work without and adapter for AM4 unless they are the kind the hook onto the nubbins of the socket frame. Which make and model of the R9 Fury do you have? Gonna be a tight fit I think.

Keep us posted.
As far as coolers not working, I can easily swap later if what I have doesn't work. Goal is to just get this new system up and running. I work a lot in the office, and it'll be awesome to make my machine quieter and snappier (though this FX 8 core still does well).

Sapphire Nitro:
https://www.newegg.com/sapphire-radeon-r9-fury-100379ntoc-sr/p/N82E16814202186

Yeah it'll be tight, but like you said it states 315mm max gpu length in default config. My card measured somewhere between 300-305mm actual. It'll be tight, very tight... eh what's the worst that happens. I won't be happy, but I can get the system going with a spare HD5450 I have and then find a card later on.

I don't even know what I'll do with the old system... not sure old old hardware sells much these days.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Keep it for backup or wipe it and give it to a nonprofit organization. I provide tech support for some nonprofits and they generally don't need the latest greatest.