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HELP!! Intel i9-9900KF heat issues when folding - Boinc, max temps over 80C

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techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Hi guys, I have heat issues with the i9. I have tried multiple things, but nothing seems to be helping.

Room temperature without AC 30C. At night I can run 30% CPUs and 40% of the time on Bonic. But sometimes in the morning I still see some 80C max temps on HWmonitor.

Daytime with A/C room temp somewhere around 26-28C I run 70% CPU and 70% of the time on Boinc, but I am still hitting 80C.

What I have done:

Case FSP - 4 120mm original LED fans
1x rear exhaust fan
3x front intake fans

MSI Torex 120mm Fans 3x
2x exhuast roof
1x rigged to top of HDD case below GPU removing bottom case heat

CPU - cooler master 120mm
2x fans push/pull

1x Noctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm
This fan is rigged with twist ties hanging from the roof angled downwards into the intake cpu fan to bring cooler air from outside the case through the top inwards.

This setup has created the best temperature scenario so far.

In addition I have removed the back right panel behind the MB, but on all intake air places I have put up a 3M filter to keep the dust and cat hair out of the system. There is still massive amounts of air being pulled into the system. The Noctua fan pulls air from the top and the MSI fan pulls air from the bottom.

Additionally I pulled back the roof magnetic screen away from the rear roof fan to allow more hot air to escape without obstruction, it helps.

As this system is new and having consulted many people before buying I opted not to install a water cooler. And looking at info online I am not 100% convinced that a water cooler would significantly reduce the temps or not. And frankly at this point I don't want to fork out another $250 for a cooling system.

I have not checked the thermal resin, as the system is new and even though the installer is a jerk, I believe it should be ok. I am not calling him to check it, I will end up waiting a month anyway. And if I ask someone else to redo it their is more cost involved. anyway..

So the purpose of my post here is to see if there is something else I am missing, forgot to do, something else I can do, a better way to rig the fans, like reversing one of the roof exhaust fans to blow into the cooler instead? I don't know. I did have a Noctua 3000RPM industrial fan installed last week, but it was way too loud, but it worked better, it kept temps below 80. But it is way too loud.

I am considering to knock down my CPU speed and voltage in order to bring down temps, but I am not sure how to do it while keeping things stable with or without using Bonic.

Screen shot attached is current temps. 70% cpu at 70% of the time, with AC on.View attachment 210064
 

DaveB

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
While 80C is no problem for your i9-9900KF, that Hyper 212 is over it's head cooling that CPU. My Hyper 212 couldn't handle my i7-8700K or any 8-core plus Ryzen CPUs. So it's sitting in it's old box in the parts cabinet.

Edit: BTW I used AIO 240mm water coolers to tame my old 5 GHz i7-8700K and my current Ryzen 9 3900X. The Cooler Master 240mm AIO I'm currently useing cost only $75 at Best Buy. A similar one is available at Amazon for $80.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I don't see a problem here at all. We say to keep those CPUs at 90C or so... ~80C is fine........that bang for the buck heatsink is doing its job just fine to me. If it was over its head, temperatures would be higher/not OK for the CPU.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
While 80C is no problem for your i9-9900KF, that Hyper 212 is over it's head cooling that CPU. My Hyper 212 couldn't handle my i7-8700K or any 8-core plus Ryzen CPUs. So it's sitting in it's old box in the parts cabinet.

Edit: BTW I used AIO 240mm water coolers to tame my old 5 GHz i7-8700K and my current Ryzen 9 3900X. The Cooler Master 240mm AIO I'm currently useing cost only $75 at Best Buy. A similar one is available at Amazon for $80.

I guess I still have a lot to learn about better quality brands, I thought Cooler Master was pretty good. Apparently not. So what would you suggest if I wanted to replace it? Keep in mind, and see photo below that I do not have low rise RAM, I have full size RAM and you will notice the space has meer mms to add a fan. I was thinking to go with that Noctua D15 BUT it appears there is no way in hell it will fit without buying new RAM and at about 1/2 the cost of a water cooler... ya know... Makes me sad that the installer did not advise of a better cooler at the start. I asked about water cooling, they said it leaks and fan cooling is the same, really the guy is a moron. Very disappointed. So let me know what I CAN buy that WILL fit here that will drop my temps significantly for about 100 bucks or less, I would love to have a better cooler.

I am not in the US, and if I am going to do water cooling, I am going to buy the 260mm closed system which is around 200 plus installation cost, which is about 30 here.


I don't see a problem here at all. We say to keep those CPUs at 90C or so... ~80C is fine........that bang for the buck heatsink is doing its job just fine to me. If it was over its head, temperatures would be higher/not OK for the CPU.

This shocks me. Talking to so many people, and even some engineers at Intel, they say keep it below 80C. So... IF AT ~80C how long will the CPU last without dying? My last machine ran for over 7 years, and I would love to get that out of this one, if I am running this 24/7 at 80C am I looking at an early death? I am not running it at 80C 24/7, it just spikes at 80-85C depending on what I am doing. At night with no AC I have to trim Boinc running at 30% CPUs at around 30-40% time usage. It cannot crunch much for the time I am sleeping or not running an AC. I would love to run at least 50% CPU and 50% time no matter AC or not.

Here is a pic of my rigged set up. Notice the hanging fan. lol. But it helps!!!

View attachment 210070
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
This shocks me. Talking to so many people, and even some engineers at Intel, they say keep it below 80C. So... IF AT ~80C how long will the CPU last without dying?
These CPUs are designed to run up to 100C before thermally throttling and will shut down at 105C or so to protect itself. 90C is fine. 80C is great. You should be able to run these at 99C for at least the warranted life of the processor. As far as how long it is going to last, who knows... it could die tomorrow or in a decade.

There are no issues with running that CPU at 80C.

I thought Cooler Master was pretty good. Apparently not.
It is good. I am not sure why he feels this way about what is arguably the best bang for the buck cheap cooler around. It isn't a miracle worker, but clearly keeping this CPU to 80C it is doing a fine job as your rig sits.
 
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OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
These CPUs are designed to run up to 100C before thermally throttling and will shut down at 105C or so to protect itself. 90C is fine. 80C is great.

There are no issues with running that CPU at 80C.

It is good. I am not sure why he feels this way about what is arguably the best bang for the buck cheap cooler around. It isn't a miracle worker, but clearly keeping this CPU to 80C it is doing a fine job as your rig sits.

I realize that the TJ MAX is 100C, but just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. haha. I would actually feel much much more comfortable with running a MAX temp at 70-75C running the system somewhere between 75-90%. That would make me feel much less worried. And I would love to get the max temps down to that. I occasionally will see a spike at 90C but I really hate that. I really don't like the machine hitting that 80C or higher. I realize they are just spikes, but I also think it lessens the lifespan of the CPU.

I am curious Earth, do you run Boinc? I think yo used to if I recall. What temps do you run at? And how do you cool your own machine?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
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I realize that the TJ MAX is 100C, but just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. haha. I would actually feel much much more comfortable with running a MAX temp at 70-75C running the system somewhere between 75-90%. That would make me feel much less worried. And I would love to get the max temps down to that. I occasionally will see a spike at 90C but I really hate that. I really don't like the machine hitting that 80C or higher. I realize they are just spikes, but I also think it lessens the lifespan of the CPU.

I am curious Earth, do you run Boinc? I think yo used to if I recall. What temps do you run at? And how do you cool your own machine?
What you feel comfortable with and what the CPU can handle are different things...Again, the CPU will easily last through its warranted life running just below the established maximums. You are worrying over NOTHING. There are no issues running that CPU at 90C versus 80C. If you don't believe me, that's fine, go get a better cooler.... but, you really don't need to.

I used to [email protected], I don't BOINC. When I [email protected] on the CPU a long long time ago, I ran them ~10C from TJMax for years.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Get something like this Masterair MA620m

This is still Coolermaster. Is it better than the setup I have? And it seems like Noctua, double heatseat, double fan, I have no space, RAM chips in the way unfortunately.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

What you feel comfortable with and what the CPU can handle are different things...Again, the CPU will easily last through its warranted life running just below the established maximums. You are worrying over NOTHING. There are no issues running that CPU at 90C versus 80C. If you don't believe me, that's fine, go get a better cooler.... but, you really don't need to.

I used to [email protected], I don't BOINC. When I [email protected] on the CPU a long long time ago, I ran them ~10C from TJMax for years.

You ran it at 100C? dang man! For how many years? lol. I would assume the lifespan is short.

I don't not believe you, it just goes against what I hear from others. It's just a different perspective. I don't just want to accept one opinion, I'd rather not spend anymore money though, sure! haha. the warranty is three years, I would like it to last for at least double, to 6 years. If I am running this at 80C will it still survive that long?
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
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Location
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You ran it at 100C? dang man! For how many years? lol. I would assume the lifespan is short.

I don't not believe you, it just goes against what I hear from others. It's just a different perspective. I don't just want to accept one opinion, I'd rather not spend anymore money though, sure! haha. I am not sure what the warranty on it is, but I guess somewhere around 1-3 years, but I would like it to last beyond 6.. if possible.
I ran the CPUs a few C away from their throttling point/TJmax (I didn't say 100C...) yes. I folded on/off for years over a decade ago.

3 years is what the CPU is warranted for. And again, it has a similar chance to die at 90C as it does at 80C. Just run it and put any cash you have for a cooler away. If you don't want this CPU to die a premature death, maybe considering not running it full tilt for years in the first place. ;)

Cooler is always better, indeed, but you are making mountains of molehills IMO.
 

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
The 212 is a 4-heatpipe heatsink. A 6-heatpipe heatsink would be better.

Also, since 2009 or 2010 I have done away with rear "grills" and exhaust fans. Rear "grills" actually impede airflow and exhaust fans are needed to overcome the impediment. After various experiments (filing, folder clasps, etc.) I have discovered that thick tape will cover cut edges and last for years (think Gorilla tape). Open rear "grills" do a fine job, especially with a pull fan on your heatsink. A pull fan will entrain case air and pull it out while you add no more noise than your heatsink makes.

Another point:

You are right to keep your Core temps <80c. An Intel engineer posted that Intel chips do best at 80c. I found in doing lots of tests that my 4790k had the most Gflops at 80c. Even greater volts did not increase Gflops. Even 100-200 mHz did not increase Gflops as much as keeping temps at 80c, regardless of Tmax.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
You are right to keep your Core temps <80c. An Intel engineer posted that Intel chips do best at 80c. I found in doing lots of tests that my 4790k had the most Gflops at 80c. Even greater volts did not increase Gflops. Even 100-200 mHz did not increase Gflops as much as keeping temps at 80c, regardless of Tmax.
Links please...

I found no performance differences at 80C compared to 90C+ when testing CPUs or motherboards across a variety of tests. The same amount of work is being done at both temperatures.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
I ran the CPUs a few C away from their throttling point/TJmax (I didn't say 100C...) yes. I folded on/off for years over a decade ago.

3 years is what the CPU is warranted for. And again, it has a similar chance to die at 90C as it does at 80C. Just run it and put any cash you have for a cooler away. If you don't want this CPU to die a premature death, maybe considering not running it full tilt for years in the first place. ;)

Cooler is always better, indeed, but you are making mountains of molehills IMO.


Yes, 3 years, I know... but generally I found I can use them much longer than that, but that was before, nowadays....... who knows... I just hope I can still find a CPU after 3-5 years for this machine if I still want to use it if the CPU dies. I see where you are going with this.


The 212 is a 4-heatpipe heatsink. A 6-heatpipe heatsink would be better.

Also, since 2009 or 2010 I have done away with rear "grills" and exhaust fans. Rear "grills" actually impede airflow and exhaust fans are needed to overcome the impediment. After various experiments (filing, folder clasps, etc.) I have discovered that thick tape will cover cut edges and last for years (think Gorilla tape). Open rear "grills" do a fine job, especially with a pull fan on your heatsink. A pull fan will entrain case air and pull it out while you add no more noise than your heatsink makes.

Another point:

You are right to keep your Core temps <80c. An Intel engineer posted that Intel chips do best at 80c. I found in doing lots of tests that my 4790k had the most Gflops at 80c. Even greater volts did not increase Gflops. Even 100-200 mHz did not increase Gflops as much as keeping temps at 80c, regardless of Tmax.

I had been thinking about that also. I have a screen on the top, and when I take it off the air flow is much better. I won't cut the grill on the top though as that might lead to some unintentional nasty wounds. haha. But a rear one gone, might be a good idea. How did you cut out the back grill? It's quite strong metal, I don't think I have any tools to cut that.
I have also asked my case manufacturer how to remove the front glass panel without breaking it as it seems to be glued. The intake air is only on the side and bottom, and those are covered with 3M filter, so the airflow in is also limited. I would love to take off the front glass, put on a piece of 3M to keep out the dust and I believe that will have massive effects.

As for <80C that is what I have been told continually. BUT not for the reasons you state, so I would be very interested in seeing test results or info on this. That seems fantastic, if these were designed to be run at ~80C without any long term damage and they do their best work at that temp, then that is where to be and thus I don't need to do any more tweaking during AC days. During off AC then I have to drop usage, to about 30-40%, but that is fine.

Can you recommend a better 6 pipe heat sink? That will not impede my memory chips?
 
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trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
"I guess I still have a lot to learn about better quality brands, I thought Cooler Master was pretty good."

The brand is not the issue. The application scenario may be. Cooler Master makes many different coolers, air and AIO water. Their products are generally well engineered. They make small coolers for low end applications, bigger coolers for mid range applications and big coolers for high end applications. The Hyper 212X is a mid range air cooler but your CPU is a higher end processor that makes a lot of heat when pushed. As others have said, your present cooler has got you covered but without a lot of margin. Folding is an intense activity that runs 24/7, as I understand it. Although the temps you quote are well within the range of what is considered safe, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with running my CPU in the mid 80s continuously like that.

Concerning running the Noctua NH-D15 with your RAM, I doubt it would be a problem. Your RAM's heatsink is really not that tall and the NH-D15 is made to work with taller RAM. The fin stack on the RAM side has a step cut in it for clearance. Just make sure your case has the clearance to the side panel to accommodate the height of that cooler. I think the NH-D15 is 165mm tall with fan in place. What case make and model do you have? That is not in your Sig. And if you change from your present cooler, regardless of whether you use air or water, make sure that what you get will fit. Research it.

And concerning installing an AIO (All In One) water cooler, you don't need to spend $30 to have someone do it. It's very straight forward. It comes in one piece already assembled and filled with water. You just have to mount the radiator in the case and the pump/water block on the CPU. Whoever you have been using to build your systems, historically, seems not to be reliable or give good customer service. I think it's time for you to quit depending on them and start doing your own builds and upgrades. It is not rocket science.
 

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
How did you cut out the back grill? It's quite strong metal, I don't think I have any tools to cut that.
I used inexpensive sheet metal scissors, also known as metal "shears". This is why I had to tape the cut edges.

The intake air is only on the side and bottom, and those are covered with 3M filter, so the airflow in is also limited.
Other people have used stretched nylon fabric from pantyhose as dust filers.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Yes, 3 years, I know... but generally I found I can use them much longer than that, but that was before, nowadays....... who knows... I just hope I can still find a CPU after 3-5 years for this machine if I still want to use it if the CPU dies. I see where you are going with this.
YOu can find cheap CPUs for X58 and every other previous platform... 3-5 years is nothing..........

You can spend your time with these peeps worrying about temps and different coolers, etc, or you can just run it and enjoy it.... your call. Me, I'd run that bad boy at 80C without a worry in the world.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
" The intake air is only on the side and bottom."

No fan spots in the front panel? Again, what is the make and model of the case?
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
I ran the CPUs a few C away from their throttling point/TJmax (I didn't say 100C...) yes. I folded on/off for years over a decade ago.

3 years is what the CPU is warranted for. And again, it has a similar chance to die at 90C as it does at 80C. Just run it and put any cash you have for a cooler away. If you don't want this CPU to die a premature death, maybe considering not running it full tilt for years in the first place. ;)

Cooler is always better, indeed, but you are making mountains of molehills IMO.

Everywhere else you seem to be making the argument is is not better. If, as you say, it doesn't help the CPU last longer or improve performance, why is it better?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
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Everywhere else you seem to be making the argument is is not better.
Better to what end, trents? I can't quantify for this user that it will last x more years if he runs it at 90C instead of 80C. Cooler is better, but will this help reach his goals? Is it worth it to spend another $75-$125 on a new air cooler/AIO and will that guarantee the CPU doesn't end a premature death because of this? No.

In the end, some of the reasoning I see is based on feelings, not facts (....waiting on anyone to throw up links of where intel said to run at 80C or less or performs better there compared to 90C. I can tell you that from 90C to -176C, Super Pi times are Super Pi times are Super Pi times... so I don't understand why 10C difference is suddenly showing more performance).

I guess I just find at the temperatures he is getting with the cooler he is using, there isn't a need for all the rigamorale and NEED to buy more cooling (did I miss something?). If he wants to go through this exercise to feel better and spend more money for results that are not guaranteed, that is up to the OP. Again, myself and that CPU at 80C, ALL DAY/YEAR(S) LONG. :)
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
ED, that's the question I'm asking you? If cooler is always better, better to what end?

I don't disagree with your overall conclusion that for the OP to spend more money on better cooling may not be a wise use of money I'm just wanting to know why you say in one place better cooling is always better but in other places you say it won't make the CPU last longer or perform better. So besides those two measures of what is better, in what ways can better cooling be better?