I have decided to go Dothan

[datura3]

Well, I got the Dothan running on my P4P800-DX, but it's pain. None of the Asus bioses are really ready for prime time yet.

I do think it's funny all you guys are sweating over heatsinks and cooling. High-end HSF's really aren't necessary - the Dothans are 27 watts, maybe 33 overclocked. At some point, you really aren't getting much of a return, since you get so close to case temps, at some point you won't get much cooler unless you go to a chilled/vapor solution. The stock heatsink barely gets warm. For this reason, I think water would be nearly useless over a decent copper HSF (notice Macci is using chilled water, a huge difference since hs is going sub-ambient).

Well if you decide to run 1.6v through the chip to boot at 200fsb then these chips will get hot. Under prime95 many people are reporting between 40-55C. Any measure to counter act that amount of heat will help with your OC. You aren't gonna jump from 2.4 to 3.0 by moving from air to water, but you will gain a couple of hundred mhz if you cool it properly.

 

[Jimbob7]

water normally gains 100 to 200mhz on northwoods depending on how good your loop is. Vcore changes heat output alot.

 

[datura3]

I don't think which asus 865/875 board you get is that important. The difficulty adjusting the vcore can be done with some simple modding. The ct-479/asus combo is definitely better than an i855 board. It's cheaper and it's easier to OC. Plus you get dual channel on the ram! The lack of vcore adjustment, CPC turn off, and lack of multi control in bios, can all be fixed with mods and windows tweakers. What IS more important is the chip that you buy. It will be very difficult to boot a 2.0 at 200fsb because of the high multiplier. The only way people are booting the 2.0's at 200fsb are using cascades and phase change. If you are doing that, then you are doing this for benching and you want that high multi to hit serious speeds 1:1.

For people that are using these in 24/7 rigs, the 1.6 730 or the 1.8 750 (533fsb) seem optimal as these chip should boot at 200fsb on air or water. Once you boot at 200fsb you can change the multi and turn on CPC and you clockgen to hit higher overclocks. Plus the price difference between a 1.6 and 2.0 is around 300 dollars . I'm building a 24/7 gaming and folding rig, so I'm gonna try to boot a 1.8 (533) at 200fsb. If that doesn't work then I'll try a 1.6 (533) at 200fsb.

 

[Gautam]

Very nicely said. This is a very nice route, but it's still no walk in the park.

 

[datura3]

Right now I think the board to get is the P4P800-SE, but even that has some issues.

You are probably correct. The P4P800 is one of the cheapest solutions, you can control the vcore, and you can change the fsb ratio to 4:5. I'm actually upgrading from a P4C800-e dlx. So I'll have to do a bit of modding to fix some of the issues. But the vcore mod is pretty easy.
By the way, my roommate did some TCCD tests on the p4p800-se with a 4:5 divider and did not see a substantial increase in memory bandwidth compared to a 1:1. I think a better option would be to change the multi and increase the fsb while keeping a 1:1. Intel chipsets seem to take a performance hit when you use a divider.

 

[datura3]

Very nicely said. This is a very nice route, but it's still no walk in the park.

You are definitely correct. This is not going to be easy- especially since I'm starting with a 1.8. I'll keep you up to date and let you know if I get robbed or mugged during my walk in the park . Luckily there is always ebay if things don't work out. We are very lucky in the US with ebay and newegg. I feel like I'm renting equipment rather than buying it.... just resell or RMA.

 

[uclajd]

I don't think which asus 865/875 board you get is that important. The difficulty adjusting the vcore can be done with some simple modding.

No offense, but as someone who worked on one of these rigs pretty extensively for the last 48 hours, the reality is that there are differences between the boards. Some just have troubles with FSB using this platform. It is a known issue. If you check the XS Dothan overclocking thread, you will see that most of the successful overclockers are using P4P800-SEs (some are using P4C variants).

BTW, I just picked up a P4P800-SE on ebay this morning.

The lack of vcore adjustment, CPC turn off, and lack of multi control in bios, can all be fixed with mods and windows tweakers.

The P4P800 and DX boards seem to have trouble clocking over 170-190 FSB range. That's no problem with a 15 multi, but at 10 or 12, the board craps out before you get anywhere near the max of the chip, crippling the FSB. Talk about infuriating.

e.g., 180x15=2700, about the max I can clock this thing. But my system also craps out at ~ 12x185 (2220) and 10x185 (1850). Keep in mind I have booted into Windows at 300FSB using a 2.4c on this board, so it isn't a bad unit.

So no, not all problems can be fixed on all boards using tweakers.

People, do what you want, but my advice is to read the Dothan @ CT-479 - howto and fixes thread before jumping in. Lots of good info there by people who have actually used these rigs (and yes, some of the XS'ers can be goons and ignore questions, but not all. Some of the gurus are really cool, but they just get besieged with PMs, so they have trouble answering everyone. The people in the howto and fixes thread are helpful and cool).

BTW, the only reason I started with a P4P800-DX is I already had it.

water normally gains 100 to 200mhz on northwoods depending on how good your loop is. Vcore changes heat output alot.

K, and having run a 2.4c at 3.4 I am aware of that, but these aren't Northwoods, they are Dothans, which put out 1/3 to 1/4 the watts of a Northy. Yes, on the Dothans, water will help disappate heat a little bit, but not that much over a good copper heatsink (compared to what gains you get on a hot Intel chip).

My point wasn't "don't go water." My point was, "You have a helluva lot more to worry about before you have even bought the rig, like, which board to get."

 

[Jimbob7]

Yeh, well seeing as water and a p4c800 dlx are already sat in my case theres no choice to be made lucky for me . Just how to mount the TDX is my only problem.

Dothan is looking real promising now as a day to day cpu

 

[uclajd]

You are probably correct. The P4P800 is one of the cheapest solutions, you can control the vcore, and you can change the fsb ratio to 4:5.

The P4P800 and the P4P800-DX are essentially the same boards and from what I have seen, both have the ~170-185 FSB issue.

P4P800-SE!

 

[Sjaak]

The P4P800 and the P4P800-DX are essentially the same boards and from what I have seen, both have the ~170-185 FSB issue.

P4P800-SE!

Anyone know more about the p4c800-e dlx? If i can't get more info i'll buy them both and just see what difference it makes. I am going to buy a silent gaming rig so a high FSB (200 - 250) with a moderate CPU overclock (2.5 - 2.8) is desired.

 

[Gautam]

Get the P4C and don't ask questions...its what I'm doing. It seems like no one on XS except for Macci can run a decent FSB, and he seems to be the only one with a P4C. Why everyone is wasting their time with those cheapo i865 boards is beyond me, but its their loss. Personally, I don't even want to try to flash to one of those BIOSes for the vcore adjustment, just use the original P4C800-E BIOS straight from Asus with Dothan support, no worries about bootblock programming or anything.

I learned one thing there though. It looks it's easy to mount heatsinks/waterblocks, but you gotta tear off the floppy power adapter and solder the leads on, otherwise there won't be enough room.

 

[uclajd]

Get the P4C and don't ask questions...its what I'm doing. It seems like no one on XS except for Macci can run a decent FSB, and he seems to be the only one with a P4C. Why everyone is wasting their time with those cheapo i865 boards is beyond me.

Well for one thing, the P4C800-E is $182 before shipping and taxes. We know the P4P800-SE works, and I got mine for $61. That is 1/3 what you will pay. For what, a 3-4% difference?

P4C's are nice, but as soon as I started pricing them, even on ebay, I gave up on that idea.

 

[Sjaak]

Well for one thing, the P4C800-E is $182 before shipping and taxes. We know the P4P800-SE works, and I got mine for $61. That is 1/3 what you will pay. For what, a 3-4% difference?

P4C's are nice, but as soon as I started pricing them, even on ebay, I gave up on that idea.

They can be found over here for 125€ shipped ( 150 dollars). Not only the performance but also the chances of a better overclock are involved.

 

[Gautam]

Well for one thing, the P4C800-E is $182 before shipping and taxes. We know the P4P800-SE works, and I got mine for $61. That is 1/3 what you will pay. For what, a 3-4% difference?

P4C's are nice, but as soon as I started pricing them, even on ebay, I gave up on that idea.

Got mine for $105...yes pricey as hell. Didn't feel good doing it, that's five bucks more than what I recently paid for my brand-spanking new DFI A64 mobo, and this board is 2 years old and used. Oh well.

But where would we be if we all spent our time penny-pinching? I really hope you can hit some high FSB's with the P4P SE, but right now, frankly, odds are against you. I have no problem spending 50 bucks for potentially 50MHz or even more on the FSB (Macci hit 250, TAM hit 265, and I haven't even seen a Springdale do 200). The two highest Dothan overclocks in the world are done with a P4C800-E Deluxe. Why settle with the rest when you can have the best?

I guess I see your point, it's just that I'm willing to spend a premium for a board with a better track record, and I would recommend others to do the same.

 

[datura3]

Yeh, well seeing as water and a p4c800 dlx are already sat in my case theres no choice to be made lucky for me . Just how to mount the TDX is my only problem.

Dothan is looking real promising now as a day to day cpu

I'm in the exact same situation. P4C800-e dlx and water in my case already. I'll probably have more info at the end of this week when the stuff comes in.

 

[uclajd]

But where would we be if we all spent our time penny-pinching?

Well, God knows I have spent my fair share on this little hobby. I do have two phase change units and just fried a $170+ DFI board. I've got mobos piling up like newspapers around here.

I really hope you can hit some high FSB's with the P4P SE, but right now, frankly, odds are against you.

A lot of the XS guys are using the SE's with success.

I guess I see your point, it's just that I'm willing to spend a premium for a board with a better track record, and I would recommend others to do the same.

If it doesn't work out, I will go the P4C route, but I thought I'd try the $61 board option.

 

[Evilsizer]

i know its not XS but this guy has had his P4p se at 222fsb @6x with the 1009 Bbios

http://forums.legitreviews.com/viewtopic.php?t=1570

 

[uclajd]

Great thread, thanks for the link. I had seen the review before but not this thread.

i know its not XS but this guy has had his P4p se at 222fsb @6x with the 1009 Bbios

http://forums.legitreviews.com/viewtopic.php?t=1570

 

[Sjaak]

Startpost updated

 

[Gautam]

Well, God knows I have spent my fair share on this little hobby. I do have two phase change units and just fried a $170+ DFI board. I've got mobos piling up like newspapers around here.

A lot of the XS guys are using the SE's with success.

If it doesn't work out, I will go the P4C route, but I thought I'd try the $61 board option.

Yeah, I read further and it looks like a couple have done well...but the major problem, whether the board is a P4P or a P4C, is booting at 200MHz FSB. If you don't, your oc is crippled no matter what. Now for those who are on phase, doing so shouldn't be difficult, but for the rest of us, it could be a hiccup and a half, which is why I'd warn people to get a 730 or a 740 (pushing it) Sonoma Dothan with 533MHz FSB, for a 12x or 13x multiplier. This way booting with a 200MHz on air shouldn't be too difficult. If you get stuck with a high multiplier, you could find yourself out of luck, even though you can reduce it in Windows. Booting with the stock multiplier at 200MHz or above is absolutely crucial.