Is push-pull still important for CPU radiators?

[DaaG]

Push/pull? Of course! Plus the ladies like it because it's sexy!

I don't always push/pull, but when I do, it's with great power

And with great power, yadda yadda, you know the rest

I couldn't help the quote because of the reply and the avatar pic. Just need the accent to go along with it.

It will, certainly, but those insta-blips to high temps won't because of the density. The die/IHS just cant get the heat out fast enough. The mediums (die to paste/solder to IHS) have always been there.


1. $

2. You can remove the IHS yourself and direct die cool... there are kits for doing just that! YOu just need to be careful not to break the die because of pressure as Z heights are different without the IHS.

EK-Quantum Velocity² IHS Removal Tool - 1700

EK-Quantum Velocity² IHS Removal Delidding Tool - 1700

www.ekwb.com

3. There isn't a cooling issue with these chips. They are spec'd to run to 100C and then throttle. Intel and Mobo makers are getting every MHz out of these chips out of the box these days. I don't buy into binning of these chips too much, no more than they were before. It's not like the lower class chips overclock significantly more than the flagships.

You I am sure remember the Northwood c 2.4ghz days. The binning still happens, its just they have taken all of the overhead away from us.

On the DD cooling, completely agree, except, the EK Velocity2 kit, has proven to be problematic, even the de lid tool. Better options are available.

Intel went another way and to reduce RMA rate, they moved pins from CPUs to motherboard sockets ... in the same time Intel stopped manufacturing motherboards. Now they are pushing fragile sockets and if anything happens then it's not their problem. Problems with sockets are happening quite often. Somehow problems with AMD sockets, even LGA are not so common.

Yea that whole pcb thickness thing and bowing. Hence the development of the DD frames.

Push/pull is an big advantage if u use thick radiators.

That's not what Peggy said

The most of the peoples prefer silent and choose lowpreasure fans.

You can have silent with high pressure fans. You should choose fans for the radiators you choose.

 

[dejo]

One thing that should be stated is that when push/pull is in place, you dont gain any CFM over a single fan (without restrictions from a radiator) but you do gain static pressure.
My last several PC's have been mini ITX builds and all water cooled. Temps can be an issue when you want to stress things in these small areas. I will often push/pull at lower rpm's to help with temps. It is quieter than running single side fans at higher rpm.

 

[Nebulous]

And that's why alot of people get confused. In push/pull you get the same amount of CFM's of the fans (CFMs do NOT increase), but the static pressure does increase.

I always suggest if you're going with 1 set of fans in either push or pull, to go in PULL orientation.

If you don't understand, try this experiment: puckering your lips like you're going to kiss your girlfriend, take a deep breath and blow. Now try the same experiment, but this time instead of blowing, suck air in. You'll feel you lips get cooler in this method. The same principles apply.

I prefer the push/pull orientation and always liked the results I got. Alot of old timers will say this is a waste, and it is. I just like overkill

 

[mtdewcowboy]

I am a running a 60mm 480mm rad with Push/Pull config. Before I just ran pull config but fans had to ramp up to 2500rpms, I had old EB Loops. Now with 1500 rpm fans in push/pull config, they run around 700 rpms and system is almost dead silent.

 

[freeagent]

I am running push/pull on my rad, and I do the same on air coolers when I get the chance.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

Push/pull? Of course! Plus the ladies like it because it's sexy!

I don't always push/pull, but when I do, it's with great power

And with great power, yadda yadda, you know the rest

 

[MaddMutt]

Thank you for this very insightful comment! It seems that heat density and the additional interfaces between the cooler and the CPU are the main limitations for cooling. So, in that sense, I guess that once you pass a certain threshold, going for larger radiators would not make a difference - for example I was considering upgrading my 280mm AIO to 420mm, but this should not affect the thermals.
Why isn't it possible to just make larger CPUs then? Or do direct cooling interface like the GPU? There is clearly an issue with cooling these new chips.

^ The more surface area of the RAD (280mm to 420mm) allows it to remove more heat from the system (water loop).

This is the reason behind the other forms of cooling. You can always go for a water chiller or maybe a single stage cooler.

 

[Flamethrower1972]

Push/pull? Of course! Plus the ladies like it because it's sexy!

I don't always push/pull, but when I do, it's with great power

And with great power, yadda yadda, you know the rest

I also agree that push pull is better and I ran my aio with one fan and the temps went up put the 2nd fan on the temps drroped.

 

[Nebulous]

Alot of people get confused with the Push/Pull concept. They think that because you double up on the fans, it will double up on the CFM which is not true. The static pressure increases, but not the CFM.

Thus is what when you add a second row of fans for Push/Pull, your temps drop

 

[Flamethrower1972]

I agree a lot of people who don't have an understating of pressures in their case. I have seen people use fog machines to see their air coming in and where it goes out.

 

[Nebulous]

I agree a lot of people who don't have an understating of pressures in their case. I have seen people use fog machines to see their air coming in and where it goes out.

Yeah I remember seeing that back in the day. I couldn't afford to buy one of those fog machines for testing, so I used burning incense's smoke. Works just as good and smells better

Glad your temps are better!

 

[Flamethrower1972]

Thats one I never thought of.

 

[EarthDog]

Yeah I remember seeing that back in the day. I couldn't afford to buy one of those fog machines for testing, so I used burning incense's smoke. Works just as good and smells better

Glad your temps are better!

I won't share what I used..........

I agree a lot of people who don't have an understating of pressures in their case.

Have you seen this article of ours?

Dust Prevention and Case Pressure: Does It Really Matter? - Overclockers

Overclockers has teamed up with be quiet! to conduct the first physical testing as to whether positive case pressure really does reduce dust in your PC.

www.overclockers.com

 

[Flamethrower1972]

Thank you for the link. For my new rig I am getting the

Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 - Multi Compatible All-in-One CPU AIO Water Cooler.​

 

[Flamethrower1972]

You're on the right track. The issue is power density: how many watts per square millimeter of die area you're trying to extract. A slab of metal in your waterblock can only take heat out of a tiny CPU die so quick, but it can absorb a ton from a large GPU die more easily.

13600k: 257 mm^2, 181W PL2. .7 W/mm^2
1080Ti: 471 mm^2, 250W TDP. .54 W/mm^2
3080: 628 mm^2, 320W TDP. .51 W/mm^2

The other issue is that of the IHS on the CPU. You have the solder interface, the copper IHS, a paste interface, then your block. Each one induces another thermal resistance loss, and the 'cooling engine' of your block is further away from the die heat source. More interfaces, more resistances, more distance. Your GPU has just the thermal paste directly attached to the waterblock, giving you one interface and very little distance between heat source and cooling engine.

I would recommend IMO pull. And fans that move more air.