Next-Generation of Video Cards...

[tom10167]

Since the title of the thread is, "Next-Generation of Video Cards...", the only thing we can really do is speculate. At least until we get ahold of some cold hard facts. Even then there is still speculation involved until someone gets their hands on the hardware and tests it out.

That aside, we can look to the past for help. Has there ever been a video card released that could outperform its predecessor by 100-150%? Is this even plausible to hope for? It certainly would be nice (drive down the prices of the "obsolete" hardware I prefer to purchase). If not, what were some of the biggest gains seen in the past?

That's how I feel, just because they MIGHT be able to actually make something, not even talking video cards right now, doesn't mean they're going to, they slowly release the products, as other technologies need them.

Example - By the time the Compact Disc hit the market they already had the same media able to hold a ton more storage(DVD?) look how long it was before the DVD hit the market. Why? When cds first came out, burners etc. did you NEED more than 650megs? No, sure it would be NICE(Just like 500fps in Hitman 2) but definitely not necessary, and even if it was, there'd be no sales, they'd have to have something completely new designed in a short matter of time.

Use up what you have while you can, and then bring out the good stuff, that's business.

So, no, the R420 or whatever will not be 50% faster than a 9800XT, even if the technology is available, it just won't.

 

[Sentential]

You forget that ATi is seeking to put the final nail in Nvidia's coffin. Normally they wouldnt release something like this, but if they gain a +50% edge on their former products, that might be enough to run Nvidia into Chp. 11.

It also might be an indication of what NV has in store, but who knows. Though it would be very nice to have such a capable generation of Radeons. But these sorta people are alot like AMD and Intel, when speaking about their "yeild problems".

Computer(s)/OEM companies have never wholly been truthful via their PR machine

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

does any one hava chart or know of one that shows ati's % gain with each new gen of card?

ATI could only push X amount of speed out of the readeon core - that is why they made the XT and not a new named card - because they did not feel that a %10 increase over a 9800 warranted a new label.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

also - dont forget - once they make a new core - they just dont out and sell it and say HEY this is the best there is and max out that core to no return - they devide it up. This new core from ati will be used for a while - possibly for a few new releases of cards..

they make various cards and push it till the end (intel is a good example of this) - so the first few cards of the new r420 may not be powerful - unless u know how to push it

 

[Evnas]

You forget that ATi is seeking to put the final nail in Nvidia's coffin. Normally they wouldnt release something like this, but if they gain a +50% edge on their former products, that might be enough to run Nvidia into Chp. 11.

It also might be an indication of what NV has in store, but who knows. Though it would be very nice to have such a capable generation of Radeons. But these sorta people are alot like AMD and Intel, when speaking about their "yeild problems".

Computer(s)/OEM companies have never wholly been truthful via their PR machine

They arent trying to "put the final nail in Nvidia's coffin". nVidia wasnt trying to do it with 3Dfx, and ATi isnt trying to do it with nVidia now. Companies dont make a product to destroy the compatition by leaps and bounds, as (especially in this market) the competitor most likely is taking the exact same next step because everything done in this industry is done as an industry whole between the top dogs. nVidia tried to do something on their own and look where it landed them. Also, making such a part is extremely cost-inefficient, and staying competative with your competators is the best way to do things. It's a lot cheaper to stay one step ahead of the competetition then trying to jump 10 steps ahead. And it saves money by allowing you to carry on with a single design.

Also, its not just computer companies that arent wholly truthful with their PR Dept. Its every profit-seeking company in the capitalist market.

 

[tom10167]

You forget that ATi is seeking to put the final nail in Nvidia's coffin. Normally they wouldnt release something like this, but if they gain a +50% edge on their former products, that might be enough to run Nvidia into Chp. 11.

It also might be an indication of what NV has in store, but who knows. Though it would be very nice to have such a capable generation of Radeons. But these sorta people are alot like AMD and Intel, when speaking about their "yeild problems".

Computer(s)/OEM companies have never wholly been truthful via their PR machine

I disagree, and Evnas basically summed up everything QUITE nicely, I just want to add my $.02. NVidia is not just a video card manufacturer, in fact, I think it's only a small portion of their revenue, ATI is really nothing without video cards. I'm willing to stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think GFX cards are a huge deal to NVidia.

 

[Evnas]

I disagree, and Evnas basically summed up everything QUITE nicely, I just want to add my $.02. NVidia is not just a video card manufacturer, in fact, I think it's only a small portion of their revenue, ATI is really nothing without video cards. I'm willing to stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think GFX cards are a huge deal to NVidia.

Graphics cards are 99% of nVidia's revanue. Chipsets for them are more of a "hobby". The nForce Chipset makes up a fraction of the AMD market, which that itself is only a fraction of the CPU market...not much money there.

Other then the nForce chipset, nVidia only does video cards

ATi does chipsets, as well as video cards, DVD decoders (for home theater DVD players), TV tuners, and many other things (they recently made a deal with (i believe) Samsung to supply their various chips for their DVD players and TV's)

For both companies though, the bottom line comes down the their video cards

 

[Steven4563]

Evnas u always sum things up very well

 

[Overclocker550]

id like to comment on your rig in the sig. very nice overclock! my cpu is a bit better than yours but I need 2.2 volts to get 2.47GHz! if I match your score with my ti4200 then it proves my overclocked ti4200 matches a stock 9700 pro and not far behind the average overclocked 9700 pro(18k for you?)

 

[snyper1982]

first off, your cpu is NOT better, his is running at 223, yours is at 190. his cpu IS running faster than yours even though it is a few mhz slower. i cannot believe you are still spouting this garbage about your 4200. your card is no where in the same league as a 9700. the 9700 i faster, better looking, and it can run aa and af. stop your useless babble.

 

[tom10167]

Graphics cards are 99% of nVidia's revanue. Chipsets for them are more of a "hobby". The nForce Chipset makes up a fraction of the AMD market, which that itself is only a fraction of the CPU market...not much money there.

Other then the nForce chipset, nVidia only does video cards

ATi does chipsets, as well as video cards, DVD decoders (for home theater DVD players), TV tuners, and many other things (they recently made a deal with (i believe) Samsung to supply their various chips for their DVD players and TV's)

For both companies though, the bottom line comes down the their video cards

I guess I had it backwards, thank you, O' Wise One.

 

[Bailey]

For both companies though, the bottom line comes down the their video cards

Not the cards exactly, the biggest $$$ comes from OEM & integrated graphics. Both companies get a lot of money from integrated graphics for laptops & other OEM deals. The high end graphics cards represent a small market segment.

Also, the "Nforce 2" chipset has been making a dent in VIA's AMD chipset market, basically they have nothing to counter it. Total integration is the way of the future & Nvidia has a huge legup.

Personally I can't see either company going belly up, they have their fingers in a LOT of different pies.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

it is funny i find that now total integration is the way to go when about 5 years ago it was shunned.

DONT buy integrated sound
DONT buy intergrated video
DONT buy an all in one motehrboard


mainly due to if something broke - u had to replace the whole mobo@!



NOw thought i guess quality is better so now everyone does want integrated again.

 

[Sentential]

Reguardless of speculations next year will be very interesting to see if Nvidia can re-take the crown. Either way, let em duke it out, we will reap the rewards in the end

ATi is rumored to be much further along with its technology than Nvidia. I remembered reading somewhere that they have several fully-functual 9600pros running PCI-x. Whereas Nvidia has none.

PCI-X (9600pro) pics:

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47613

 

[tom10167]

it is funny i find that now total integration is the way to go when about 5 years ago it was shunned.

DONT buy integrated sound
DONT buy intergrated video
DONT buy an all in one motehrboard


mainly due to if something broke - u had to replace the whole mobo@!



NOw thought i guess quality is better so now everyone does want integrated again.

Don't forget the price. A top-of-the-line Socket A motherboard with intergrated sound and video etc. etc. is about $130. Not bad!

 

[Overclocker550]

not true, if onboard sound or video breaks, just use an external one. onboard sound rocks but onboard video usually means you get no agp slot so its not for gamers

 

[Evnas]

Not the cards exactly, the biggest $$$ comes from OEM & integrated graphics. Both companies get a lot of money from integrated graphics for laptops & other OEM deals. The high end graphics cards represent a small market segment.

Also, the "Nforce 2" chipset has been making a dent in VIA's AMD chipset market, basically they have nothing to counter it. Total integration is the way of the future & Nvidia has a huge legup.

Personally I can't see either company going belly up, they have their fingers in a LOT of different pies.

Ok, let me rephrase (as this is mainly what i meant anyways)...the bottom line for both companies comes down to their GPU's. Obviously, as nVidia doesnt make any actual cards in the first place.

I have to disagree with the "total integration is the way of the future". Maybe for OEM's, but thats how its always been anyways. In the entusiest market, integration is still shunned by far. nVidia may have a leg up on VIA in the AMD market, but they still dont sell as much as VIA, and AMD still only makes up a very small percentage of the CPU market. ATi is in a very good position as they have got a license from Intel and AMD to produce chipsets for both CPUs.

ATi is rumored to be much further along with its technology than Nvidia. I remembered reading somewhere that they have several fully-functual 9600pros running PCI-x. Whereas Nvidia has none.

I'm sure nVidia has got a working PCI-Express (not PCI-X) video card in their labs, they just arent as vocal as ATi is about their new developements. ATi has been very public every step of the way in the development of new technologies, where nVidia is rather close-mouthed (which I think is bad business because it gives not only the general public, but your stock holders the idea that you arent making progress)

 

[harryinny3]

I also read

That ATI is going to start making chipsets for Abit. Guess nvidia shot itself in the foot and abit is seeking ATI for the chipsets. So Im not 100% sure here but i think the NF boards are going the way of Voodoo.



Harry

 

[Evnas]

Re: I also read

That ATI is going to start making chipsets for Abit. Guess nvidia shot itself in the foot and abit is seeking ATI for the chipsets. So Im not 100% sure here but i think the NF boards are going the way of Voodoo.



Harry

Asus, Abit, and I think Gigabyte have all signed contracts with ATi to produce motherboards, but that doesnt limit the company to producing boards with just that chipset. Currently all those companies produce VIA, nVidia, SiS, and Intel based motherboards...ATi will just be added into the fray

 

[Sentential]

No, but it is agreed that this is a bad sign. (ie rats leaving the sinking ship). No one can deny that it is very odd that our favorite companies are switching to ATi (much like we are).

As I said before, it is very possible for them to make a card that is +50% better than a 9700. From a buisness stand point, I believe that it would be very wise of them to do that. Sure they may lose more money in the fabs, but they have a real shot at taking out nVidia from the market. Plus the opportunity to snatch up the market share of the console arena.

nVidia realizes this and will fight tooth and limb to stay profitable, but its gonna be tough. Unless nVidia puts something stellar out, they may end up like Voodoo. The amount of market share that ATi is gaining is truly impressive. I doubt they would want to wreak the momentum with a medicore video card for the final round.

I think that everyone will agree that the 9700 was a real shocker. Why wouldn't they do that agian?? Look at what they gain from it. These ppl running ATi are stupid, they have the opportunity to take out nVidia, why wouldnt they sieze the moment???