A new Chimp Challenge

[theGryphon]

Hey guys,
First off, congratulations on CC2012! You really earned the Jaded Monkey!

I've been participating or observing CC since 2009, and my observation is that the most problematic aspect of CC is also what makes it so different and special: changing clients to Chimp names. I've seen it holding back many folders from participating, causing within-team discussions/frictions, which in turn can go as far as donors or teams to swear off CC. I think we all agree that this aspect of CC is both valuable but troublesome at the same time.

I believe the biggest reason why changing CC names is not favored is because personal recognition/objectives are important for some donors (more than others). I believe we should all respect their point of view. On the other hand, there are others who are in it to win it for the Team. I believe we should all respect their point of view, as well. But then, when things heat-up, especially when losing, there starts finger-pointing within the team.

So, I've been thinking how to manage this; keeping the specialty of CC while minimizing the issues it causes. There is basically no way without trade-offs, but as simple as it is, I believe what I'm going to propose will make things "better"

Proposal: Each participating party in the CC, create a new Chimp team (yes, team). Donors who wants to participate in CC for this Chimp team change their team number accordingly, while keeping their username.

Question/Comment: What?? New teams?? WTF?
Answer: Yes, new teams for Chimp names. Was that a question?

Q/C: How is it different from Chimp usernames?
A: The differences are, 1) The donors get to keep their folding names under the new team, 2) Switching to the new team is easier than switching to a new username; a) typos will be fewer, if any, and b) no need to change the passkeys, which 3) Enables a more secure and more efficient process, and 4) It is easier to communicate to new folders (my subjective view).

Q/C: Are there any benefits in doing this? Why bother?
A: On top of the logistics aspects, 1) It opens the CC to a whole new dimension. It is not the original folding teams that are competing now, but it is the Chimps! It suggests that regardless of their original folding teams, donors come together in a totally different team and engage in a totally different competition. 2) Discoupling the CC from original competition (at least to some degree) enables establishing and enhancing the camaraderie between folders across the whole folding community. It can really bring the whole folding community together and do something for fun while still competing, flinging poo, and smack-talking. It can hopefully make it so that it's not about winning but doing it for the celebration of the efforts we're all in together (something we unfortunately forget sometimes).

Q/C: I don't like that team points will be separated.
A: This idea suggests that CC will not be about the folding teams anymore. CC will be a battle of Chimps; this will put the "Chimp" in Chimp Challenge. We're too much immersed in team competition, and why? Why does it really matter what team you're folding for? I hope you can see that it really does not. So, why not change your team to another one for 10 days, just for the fun of it?

Q/C: How are we going to calculate "Growth"? Especially for new Chimps?
A: For the first year, which will be a transient (and imperfect) state, it will be based on last year's points. For new Chimps, there are a number of alternatives to go for. One possibility that I like is giving them the average of their scores in other categories.

Q/C: How about "Conversion"?
A: This is challenging, and there are two alternatives: 1) Same as before, 2) Get rid of it. The first one suggests we divide the Chimp team points to the folding team points and go from there. However, this is not what I have in mind, because it links the Chimp team too strongly to a single folding team; the opposite of what I'm trying to achieve. On the other hand, getting rid of "Conversion" will probably require another category to replace it with (I will post an idea about this as well). My side suggestion: get rid of it, because I envision CC to be decoupled from original teams, and Conversion is working just the opposite way.

Q/C: I don't like it.
A: OK(?)..

Any more questions/comments, please post below minding respect to others' (starting with me ) ideas. Thanks!

PS: I will post this on EVGA and [H] (yes, I've got a steel pair ) as well...

 

[dfonda]

Boy that would be tough, I care less about my own user name and way more about my team. Its what keeps me folding. Its hard enough switching off our user name(the old system), but to also switch off the team? I would really have to think about that. I like my team more then I like the Chimp challenge.

If its any consolation your post was intelligent and well thought out.

 

[theGryphon]

Boy that would be tough, I care less about my own user name and way more about my team. Its what keeps me folding. Its hard enough switching off our user name(the old system), but to also switch off the team? I would really have to think about that. I like my team more then I like the Chimp challenge.

If its any consolation your post was intelligent and well thought out.

Thanks for your comment dfonda!
Just to clarify maybe, you don't have to change both your team and username, but only the team. You keep your username and passkey. So, in the config, there is just one field to change.
However, I understand your position regarding the team loyalty and I know there will be many with the same concern. This is what I meant above, by saying there is no easy way and there are trade-off's

 

[dfonda]

Thanks for your comment dfonda!
Just to clarify maybe, you don't have to change both your team and username, but only the team. You keep your username and passkey. So, in the config, there is just one field to change.
However, I understand your position regarding the team loyalty and I know there will be many with the same concern. This is what I meant above, by saying there is no easy way and there are trade-off's

Yeah I was just referring to how now we have to convince folks to switch user names.

It might be even harder to get folks to switch teams even keeping the user name.

 

[equinox]

as a new particapant to this worthwhile event im going to give my perspective of it all.
1. you have to incorporate both the team and individual aspect into it to gain the most benefit from it. some people who wish to participate are for the team while others may be more inclined to participate for the individual satisfaction. how to incorparate both should be the question on all interested forums or individuals. the focus of everyone involved should be the benifits of the outcome of what is acomplished.the first priority of every forum involved should be how do we increase our wu production NOT how do we convince our folders to change there name or team number . how to incorporate that aspect into a scoring system would require a little research but there seems to be a lot of intelligent people around all the forums involved to fiquire it out. a % score based off pre cc competition vs end of cc competition seems logical as that involves all team members. you want a higher percentage push your members to produce more. there's the points production portion.
2. wu's , best % increase pre cc to end of cc. simple. gives a person with lesser gear a feeling of accomplishing something toward the overall effort. points are not as high as 4p systems but they are contributing non the less. gives that partipicipant that much more incentive to maybe stick around and fold because they see the benifit of what they are providing to a cause.

again just my perspective, more to come when time allows.

 

[jaymz9350]

Thanks for your comment dfonda!
Just to clarify maybe, you don't have to change both your team and username, but only the team. You keep your username and passkey. So, in the config, there is just one field to change.
However, I understand your position regarding the team loyalty and I know there will be many with the same concern. This is what I meant above, by saying there is no easy way and there are trade-off's

I'm not sure if passkeys changed this but if you use your name on another team it's the same as changing user names. I have folded for 2 different teams in the past and they are totally separate accounts (for lack of better words)

 

[theGryphon]

I'm not sure if passkeys changed this but if you use your name on another team it's the same as changing user names. I have folded for 2 different teams in the past and they are totally separate accounts (for lack of better words)

Sorry to correct you there, but no: If you just change your team, but keep your username, you can keep using your passkey. Passkey's are given per username, not per username+team combination.

You have an account with PG under your username, and no matter what team you fold for, it goes to the same account. See for example mine: http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=userpage&username=theGryphon

 

[txus.palacios]

Yes, for Stanford's website, they give you a total per username.
But for example, EOC, has different "accounts" for each team.

 

[jaymz9350]

Yes, for Stanford's website, they give you a total per username.
But for example, EOC, has different "accounts" for each team.

And that only applies there, if you look up donor ranks it's separated by name and team (ie I have 2 rankings since I've folded for 2 teams if you notice on the page posted it states donor rank "if" points are combined where that page is the only place they are.) Now me personally it doesn't matter nor does it matter to use a Chimp Challenge name, but I also have zero chance of being a top donator.

 

[theGryphon]

Yes, for Stanford's website, they give you a total per username.
But for example, EOC, has different "accounts" for each team.

Yeah.. the way EOC reports it is like that. Still if you search for a username in EOC, you see all your teams.

Anyway, this idea is about making CC a competition of not original folding teams, but Chimp teams. In an effort to bring the whole folding community together for a short period of time. My feeling is that there is too much focus on team competition, and that sometimes tends to go too extreme causing meaningless frictions both within and between teams. People tend to forget the ultimate purpose in Folding at Home. I had hoped more people felt the same way and this idea could serve a purpose of "coming together" as a short, 10-day celebration of what we are doing.

 

[jaymz9350]

I can see your point but the fact remains there is and always will be the competitive side of it as well. Now as you pointed out it can be hard enough sometimes to get people to pull away from using their user name but I would see at as even harder to also pull them from their team as well.

 

[txus.palacios]

The problem for me is that I don't give a damn for my points nor my rank. When I fold, it's for the team. Sometimes, when I'm too lazy, I just set the team and fold as anonymous.

 

[Adak]

Your idea is somewhat similar to the SETI Gauntlet races. As they create the actual racing teams, in order to balance out the numbers in each team, you could be assigned to actually race against your original team.

Which is the antithesis of what a team race is understood to be. It can be a race, and it has teams, but the teams don't mean anything once they're broken up and re-assembled into "racing" teams.

So what you've outlined above, is an interesting event, but it's not a traditional team race. Nothing wrong with that, except it's very difficult to recruit your teammates to race in anything other than a traditional team race, in my experience. Maybe your design of the race will make that easier.