Looking for help with first CPU overclock (FX-4170).

[Obsidus]

Hello! Long time computer user, and I've also been building my own systems for years now, but believe it or not I've NEVER overclocked anything before because I'm an extremely paranoid person when it comes to stuff like that.
Despite that, I recently learned all I could and overclocked my MSI 7850 from 900 core and 1200 mem to 1220 core and 1350 mem, stable, and I'm very happy with that.

So now I want to overclock my CPU (especially since Bulldozer apparently sucks wish I'd known before building this computer, it's only 2 months old) but overclocking the CPU scares me a ton more than messing with the GPU, and so that is why I am here. The thing is, my 4170 came out of the box overclocked to 4.6ghz already! But today after flashing my BIOS I noticed that my ram was set to run at 1437, when it is supposed to be 1600 ram. So I went into the bios and changed one of the settings from manual to D.O.C.P and this set my ram to 1600 no problem, but it reverted my CPU back to 4.2! So now I HAVE to learn to overclock my CPU to rectify this situation.

I've watched some tutorials, downloaded Asus AI Suite II, Aida 64, CPU-Z, HWMonitor, and I'll get Prime 95 if need be. But I really would love it if someone could be gracious enough to hold my hand with this, as when I look at all the different variables that need to be touched, I'm too intimidated, even after watching a 30 min long Asus made video on youtube that made it look easy with AI Suite.

Any help would be appreciated. I should also mention I'm not using the stock cooler, I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO and Arctic Silver 7 that has to have cured by now.

 

[Obsidus]

Hmm, I'm not sure how to make a sig with my system in it, so here is my whole system:

MSI Twin Frozr III 7850 2GB
Crucial M4 128GB SSD
AMD FX-4170 Quad Core 4.2ghz
G.SKill Ripjaws 2x4GB 1600 ram
Asus Sabertooth 990FX mobo
Silverstone Raven case (tons of air flow)
Corsair HX750 Silver PSU
Win 7 64Bit

 

[Jagged_Steel]

My FX-4170 also auto-tunes to around 4.5 Ghz without touching it , depending on the motherboard. I can hit 4.8 GHz with all auto voltage settings and all power saving features on. You should be able to do the same. I would start by running the AI Suite auto-OC. That will give you a good idea of what settings will work with your setup, and then you can tighten things up from there. The OCs the AI suite will come up with are rock solid stable, the area they mainly fall short in is the memory and NB speeds.

Yesterday I was running a Sabertooth, but today I have a Crosshair V in my rig, and to be honest I have not yet been able to get as good of results with the CHV compared to the ST, so the CHV may very well be going back. I will make a decision on which one to keep this weekend and send one of them back. If I had to make the choice this instant, I would keep the $99 Sabertooth (refurbished) from Geeks and send the $154 Crosshair V (Open Box) back.

I am curious about something. What exactly do you think sucks about your FX-4170? Are you upset that it runs faster than what they promised?

You paid for a Camaro, received a Corvette, and you are upset that it isn't a Ferrari? With that outlook you will never be satisfied friend.

 

[trents]

Hmm, I'm not sure how to make a sig with my system in it, so here is my whole system:

MSI Twin Frozr III 7850 2GB
Crucial M4 128GB SSD
AMD FX-4170 Quad Core 4.2ghz
G.SKill Ripjaws 2x4GB 1600 ram
Asus Sabertooth 990FX mobo
Silverstone Raven case (tons of air flow)
Corsair HX750 Silver PSU
Win 7 64Bit

Welcom to OC Forums!

New members are not eligbile to create a Sig until sometime after your second post. It's set up that away to cut down on spamming. Sometime within one hour after the second post that feature becomes unlocked. Please try again. Go to Quick Links at the top of the page and Edit Signature.

 

[Obsidus]

Welcom to OC Forums!

New members are not eligbile to create a Sig until sometime after your second post. It's set up that away to cut down on spamming. Sometime within one hour after the second post that feature becomes unlocked. Please try again. Go to Quick Links at the top of the page and Edit Signature.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Obsidus]

My FX-4170 also auto-tunes to around 4.5 Ghz without touching it , depending on the motherboard. I can hit 4.8 GHz with all auto voltage settings and all power saving features on. You should be able to do the same. I would start by running the AI Suite auto-OC. That will give you a good idea of what settings will work with your setup, and then you can tighten things up from there. The OCs the AI suite will come up with are rock solid stable, the area they mainly fall short in is the memory and NB speeds.

Yesterday I was running a Sabertooth, but today I have a Crosshair V in my rig, and to be honest I have not yet been able to get as good of results with the CHV compared to the ST, so the CHV may very well be going back. I will make a decision on which one to keep this weekend and send one of them back. If I had to make the choice this instant, I would keep the $99 Sabertooth (refurbished) from Geeks and send the $154 Crosshair V (Open Box) back.

I am curious about something. What exactly do you think sucks about your FX-4170? Are you upset that it runs faster than what they promised?

You paid for a Camaro, received a Corvette, and you are upset that it isn't a Ferrari? With that outlook you will never be satisfied friend.

I'll try the AI Suite auto-OC then and report back after.

And to answer your question in a lengthy manner. This is my first AMD system, and to be honest like I said, I know enough to build and maintain my own system, but I'm not well informed on the particulars. When I was building this computer on Newegg, the only thoughts I had in my head when it came to the CPU, was what I had been hearing for years; that number of cores is irrelevant most of the time because most applications don't use more than 1 or 2, and the clock speed per core is more important than number of cores. I also had the idea of old in my head that AMD is at worst a little behind Intel in performance, but a lot behind in price.

So, with that in mind I saw that the two best processors for AMD that were on Newegg were the FX-8150 and the FX-4170. I passed on the 8150 because the idea of an 8 core seemed extremely superfluous, I figured that 99% of games wouldn't even use most of the cores, so I went with the FX-4170. To MY eyes, the idea of a 4.2ghz quad core for $120.00 seemed insane, how could I possibly go wrong! Well....Turns out now, after the fact, that you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting 5000 benchmarks that show that if I had spent a little more money and gone with Intel (and gotten a i5 2500k) that I would have a setup that smokes the one I have now. I've seen this demonstrated with Heaven DX11 benchmarks, people having nearly the same setup I do, but they have a 2500k and get 500+ higher in scores than I do ( mainly due to the min FPS, mine is always around 8, whereas people with a 2500k get like 30 min fps). Then I read all the talk about how Bulldozer is a complete cockup on AMD's part, and that it isn't even a quad core but infact a dual core.

So really, when I say Bulldozer sucks, I don't mean absolutely, just compared to pretty much anything Intel offers. And it makes me sad because I JUST built this computer, and I need it to last me at least 5 years. Every part of my computer has a potential upgrade path, EXCEPT the processor. So this computer isn't even a little future proof unless Piledriver exceeds expectations. Otherwise I just bought a new computer that is stuck with an AM3+ motherboard, and am being left in the dust by everyone and their grandmothers third cousin with their i5's and i7's.

So that's the sob story!

I'll go try AI Suite now and report back.

 

[trents]

I would really encourage you to not use any bios automatic overclocking genies or overclocking software but to do it with manual controls in bios. I'm not a tech guru by any means but my niche here on the forum seems to have evolved in to helping beginner overclockers. I would be willing to "take you by the hand" if you like. I think I can get you basically where you want to go. Others may chime in with regard to the fine points.

 

[Obsidus]

I would really encourage you to not use any bios automatic overclocking genies or overclocking software but to do it with manual controls in bios. I'm not a tech guru by any means but my niche here on the forum seems to have evolved in to helping beginner overclockers. I would be willing to "take you by the hand" if you like. I think I can get you basically where you want to go. Others may chime in with regard to the fine points.

Haha, actually that is why I just came back here. I looked around on AI suite and it didn't seem to be too much easier to me than the bios, so I looked around on Google and saw about 10000 warnings of don't OC with programs, do it in the bios. So here I am.

I read in another thread that the first step is to go into the bios and disable things like Cool n quiet, Turbo Boost, and "C1E" and "c6", is this right?

 

[trents]

Correct. Disable all those "green" power saving, voltage and downthrottling technologies. They cause wide fluctuations in voltages and frequencies and play havoc with overclocking in the higher ranges, not to mention they obscure your bios settings when you go to view them in Windows reporting software. Do you have something in bios called APM (Advanced Power Management) or something like that? If so, disable that as well.

Then, go into Windows Control Panel Power Options and configure it to High Performance.This and the measures above should disable all the green stuff.

You will also need to download and install CPU-z, HWMonitor and Prime95 if you haven't.

 

[Obsidus]

Correct. Disable all those "green" power saving, voltage and downthrottling technologies. They cause wide fluctuations in voltages and frequencies and play havoc with overclocking in the higher ranges, not to mention they obscure your bios settings when you go to view them in Windows reporting software. Do you have something in bios called APM (Advanced Power Management) or something like that? If so, disable that as well.

Then, go into Windows Control Panel Power Options and configure it to High Performance.This and the measures above should disable all the green stuff.

You will also need to download and install CPU-z, HWMonitor and Prime95 if you haven't.

Gotcha. I have my girlfriends vaio now and can do this on the fly, so I'll update frequently.

 

[Obsidus]

Ok all are disabled/ changed. I see something called Asus Core Unlocker, it's set to disabled, should I enable it? Otherwise I'm ready for whatever is next.

 

[Obsidus]

Downloading Prime 95 now. On a side note Asus AI Suite refuses to uninstall, it's getting stuck on the USB 3.0 boost. >< Oh well, I'll worry about that later.

 

[trents]

To disable AI Suite, type "msconfig" in the search dialog box at the bottom of the Start menu (without quotes). Click on the file name msconfig.exe when it appears. In the misconfig menu click on the Startup tab and unselect AIChargerPlus Application.

Yes, leave Core Unlocker disabled. That CPU doesn't have any core to unlock.

 

[Obsidus]

To disable AI Suite, type "msconfig" in the search dialog box at the bottom of the Start menu (without quotes). Click on the file name msconfig.exe when it appears. In the misconfig menu click on the Startup tab and unselect AIChargerPlus Application.

Yes, leave Core Unlocker disabled. That CPU doesn't have any core to unlock.

Yeah I fixed it, I had a brain fart since I haven't used msconfig for anything for years.

Anyhow, everything disabled and whatnot, and I have Prime 95 downloaded, I'm ready for the next step master.

 

[trents]

First, let me say that I employ a method of overclocking that is very incremental but safe. It's kind of tedious and some folks get impatient with the process. Sounds like from your original post that will be okay with you.

The first thing I'd like you to do is to check temps at stock speeds and voltages to get a baseline and to get an idea of how much overclocking headroom you might have. Temps are the critical factor in overclocking. There are two temps we will be monitoring: core temps and CPU socket temps. The FX CPUs often have core temp sensors that are poorly calibrated and report on the cool side so we will look at both. With good aftermarket air cooling, core temps are often about 10c cooler than socket temps. If there is much more of a differential than that I get suspicious that the core temp sensors are not accurate.

So what I want you to do is to open HWMonitor on the desktop and leave it open while you run the Prime95 blend test for 20 minutes. HWMonitor will record min, max and current temps. When you are done with that stress test, post back with an attached pic of the HWMonitor interface.

To attach images with a post use the built-in forum tool. First, use Snipping Tool in Windows Accessories to crop and save the image to disc. Then click on Go Advanced at the bottom of any new post window. That will take you to the Advanced post window. Locate the paperclip tool at the top and click on it. That will load the file browser and upload window and the rest will be obvious.

 

[trents]

I'll be gone for a bit. I want to take a jog. Be back in about 45 min.

 

[Obsidus]

I'll be gone for a bit. I want to take a jog. Be back in about 45 min.

Alright, thank you so much! Have a nice run (I enjoy it myself).

 

[Obsidus]

First, let me say that I employ a method of overclocking that is very incremental but safe. It's kind of tedious and some folks get impatient with the process. Sounds like from your original post that will be okay with you.

The first thing I'd like you to do is to check temps at stock speeds and voltages to get a baseline and to get an idea of how much overclocking headroom you might have. Temps are the critical factor in overclocking. There are two temps we will be monitoring: core temps and CPU socket temps. The FX CPUs often have core temp sensors that are poorly calibrated and report on the cool side so we will look at both. With good aftermarket air cooling, core temps are often about 10c cooler than socket temps. If there is much more of a differential than that I get suspicious that the core temp sensors are not accurate.

So what I want you to do is to open HWMonitor on the desktop and leave it open while you run the Prime95 blend test for 20 minutes. HWMonitor will record min, max and current temps. When you are done with that stress test, post back with an attached pic of the HWMonitor interface.

To attach images with a post use the built-in forum tool. First, use Snipping Tool in Windows Accessories to crop and save the image to disc. Then click on Go Advanced at the bottom of any new post window. That will take you to the Advanced post window. Locate the paperclip tool at the top and click on it. That will load the file browser and upload window and the rest will be obvious.

Ok 32 min long blend test results below.

 

[trents]

Your CPU and core temps are close together so that bodes well for the core temp sensors being pretty right on. In case you're wondering about the 12c min core temp (since that's lower than ambient) that is due to he fact that core temp sensors are more accurate on the high end of the scale when under load than at idle. They're skewed that way and that's normal. It's just like a bathroom scale is going to be more accurate weighing a human body than it is a feather if you get what I mean.

We know from experience that AMD FX CPUs become unstable (not the same as unsafe) when core temps reach up into the 55-60c range. Keep that in mind because as we add vcore (shorthand for CPU core voltage) the temps begin to rise. Increasing temps in an electrical circuit causes greater resistance to the flow of electrons but it is also true that the only way to overcome resistance is to push the electrons harder with more juice (or lower the temp). At some point your reach a stasis where the immovable object meets the irresistable (sp?) force and you have a standoff. That's kind of the point where we want to get to when we are seeking the max overclock of a CPU.

So the big picture is this: We start increasing the CPU speed until we encounter instability under stress. Then we add more vcore to restore stability. Then we start increasing the CPU speed again until we encounter instability once again. Then we add more vcore to make it stable again. As we are doing this we monitor temps (i.e. we have HWMonitor open whenever we run a 20 minute Prime95 stress test). When core temps start hitting the 55-60 range we know that we can't add more vcore and so we run a longer Prime95 stress test (at least two hours) to confirm stability. 20 minutes is long enough to ensure you are almost stable and it is time efficient at the beginning of the process but not good enough to conclude you are really stable. If the long Prime test isn't passed then we tweak CPU speed or voltage.

Are you ready to start?

 

[Obsidus]

Your CPU and core temps are close together so that bodes well for the core temp sensors being pretty right on. In case you're wondering about the 12c min core temp (since that's lower than ambient) that is due to he fact that core temp sensors are more accurate on the high end of the scale when under load than at idle. They're skewed that way and that's normal. It's just like a bathroom scale is going to be more accurate weighing a human body than it is a feather if you get what I mean.

We know from experience that AMD FX CPUs become unstable (not the same as unsafe) when core temps reach up into the 55-60c range. Keep that in mind because as we add vcore (shorthand for CPU core voltage) the temps begin to rise. Increasing temps in an electrical circuit causes greater resistance to the flow of electrons but it is also true that the only way to overcome resistance is to push the electrons harder with more juice (or lower the temp). At some point your reach a stasis where the immovable object meets the irresistable (sp?) force and you have a standoff. That's kind of the point where we want to get to when we are seeking the max overclock of a CPU.

So the big picture is this: We start increasing the CPU speed until we encounter instability under stress. Then we add more vcore to restore stability. Then we start increasing the CPU speed again until we encounter instability once again. Then we add more vcore to make it stable again. As we are doing this we monitor temps (i.e. we have HWMonitor open whenever we run a 20 minute Prime95 stress test). When core temps start hitting the 55-60 range we know that we can't add more vcore and so we run a longer Prime95 stress test (at least two hours) to confirm stability. 20 minutes is long enough to ensure you are almost stable and it is time efficient at the beginning of the process but not good enough to conclude you are really stable. If the long Prime test isn't passed then we tweak CPU speed or voltage.

Are you ready to start?

Ready whenever you are!