* Official Team 32 Chimp Challenge 2010 Thread *

[dfonda]

Congrats to Evga...

 

[oakstave]

Big Round for EVGA. Huge folding power for the cause. I wonder if Stanford plans any science around these challenges? "We need this data fast... Thank God for the Chimp Challenge."

Wait, did you say Challenge Infraction? Let me know, and we can move to Plan B:

 

[Mark620]

there's been some talk going on about whether EVGA has committed a challenge infraction with due to the enormity of their first two points updates. See here (check their Hourly graph) and you tell me: http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?s=&[/QUOTE] Its too obvious to deny...imo

 

[Outback_Jon]

Its too obvious to deny...imo

It does look like a bit more than scheduling the end of WUs to coincide with the start of the Challenge.

Those first couple of updates are double their average for the rest of the Challenge.

 

[Macaholic]

Thanks Duner!!! And Thank You To Everyone Pouring your WUs out for T32monekys!!! We will prevail!!! (for third place).

Nice cool weekend here. Router connection fixed. 23 GPU clients equal to 8800 GTS 512 or better should add nicely to the next update. Happy Monkeys er... I mean, Mothers Day to all!

 

[ihrsetrdr]

Nice cool weekend here. Router connection fixed. 23 GPU clients equal to 8800 GTS 512 or better should add nicely to the next update. Happy Monkeys er... I mean, Mothers Day to all!

23 gpu clients= noice! wtf CB!

 

[harlam357]

Wait, did you say Challenge Infraction? Let me know, and we can move to Plan B:

Yes, and it's being discussed. Actually I was contacted by the OCN Captain first. Then I gave my opinion and he's called all the Captains back to discuss per my advisement.

Its too obvious to deny...imo

I agree... sure looks like WU priming to me. The question is... would it have mattered or not? OCN did a magnificent job of taking on EVGA, but I believe EVGA had everyone's number regardless. But again, it sure looks like an infraction... and we shouldn't tolerate such as it will just encourage it in the future.

It does look like a bit more than scheduling the end of WUs to coincide with the start of the Challenge.

Those first couple of updates are double their average for the rest of the Challenge.

Exactly, here's what I stated when putting the rules together. And mind this is BEFORE this happened and it speaks to this exact situation.

This is considered a dishonorable act and SLOWS DOWN THE FAH SCIENCE!!! As you stated... some people just don't care and are going to do it anyway. This will have to be dealt with on a case by case basis and its very hard to prove one way or the other... but, if a Team has a rather large points dump right out of the gate and then fails to continue producing a "like" amount of points per update... then we may have an issue that will need addressed by all the Captains. I surely hope we don't get into that situation.

To All Captions: As Captain of your respective Team its your duty to inform your Team that this is not an accepted practice in the Chimp Challenge or an accepted practice in general due to the nature of the Folding@Home Project itself. What you do for your own inner-Team competitions is your Team's business but holding WU results for the sake of points does not jive with the FAH user agreement.

It would take a concentrated effort by a Team to get a large percentage of their CC participants to create a noticeable blip on the radar for a Team... so as long as the Captains make it clear that its not an accepted practice, the few that aren't going to listen and do it anyway won't create a large enough differential to warrant any action.

Nice cool weekend here. Router connection fixed. 23 GPU clients equal to 8800 GTS 512 or better should add nicely to the next update. Happy Monkeys er... I mean, Mothers Day to all!

Thanks Mac!!! We certainly miss having you around. Come back and Fold a million or two with us. Can't have you slipping off the first page now can we? You know, I think Outback has your number.

 

[NV]

You know guys, I've been doing some (very dangerous) thinking... towards the end of the competition (eta ~2days) we should probably switch all our bigadv rigs to A3s... shouldn't we? You know, to negate that whole "Oh crap, the Chumps just hit 20 mil, we're 50k behind and my bigadv unit was an hour from being done..." thing that running so many bigadv units can cause.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed.

 

[molnarc]

You know guys, I've been doing some (very dangerous) thinking... towards the end of the competition (eta ~2days) we should probably switch all our bigadv rigs to A3s... shouldn't we? You know, to negate that whole "Oh crap, the Chumps just hit 20 mil, we're 50k behind and my bigadv unit was an hour from being done..." thing that running so many bigadv units can cause.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed.

I'm new to this competition stuff, but I would think that changing the bigadv rigs to A3s would be similar to the idea of holding back points until the start of the competition. That is, doing something that in the long run, diminishes the output of our group for Team 32 and for the project to get more points within a small time window is not in the spirit of the competition. Although not a large number, I would think that if the bigadv rigs were changed to A3s, there would be overall less work actually completed over the next month.

Just my 2 cents...

...csm

 

[Drugless]

Whilst I agree with both posts above:
Lets just keep our hands clean of ANY type of action.
We are doing well and doing it clean.

 

[Adak]

FAH won't mind if you change from one type of WU to another. That's as you please.

As long as you're returning the WU's, ASAP, they're OK.

There are three things that WILL GREATLY tick them off, however:

1) if you hold back reporting any work units). We have seen this, and it's *NOT* pretty. Dutch Power Cows and Vietnam Global Team, were both hit with this.

2) Likewise, if you do anything to "cherry pick" your work units, so you only get the WU's you want.

3) If you break the EULA by distributing FAH clients or WU's. Only Stanford can distribute these. Altered or "Tweaked" clients are NOT OK, no exceptions.

In the case of the Vietnam Global Team, they regularly got together, and had a "flushing" party, where all the finished WU's were sent back by the team.

I thought Vijay (our exalted leader of FAH), was going to blow a gasket!

Ooooohhh weeeeeee! Don't do that!.

 

[harlam357]

Morning All!

You know guys, I've been doing some (very dangerous) thinking... towards the end of the competition (eta ~2days) we should probably switch all our bigadv rigs to A3s... shouldn't we? You know, to negate that whole "Oh crap, the Chumps just hit 20 mil, we're 50k behind and my bigadv unit was an hour from being done..." thing that running so many bigadv units can cause.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed.

This is basically what I read that EVGA did. Except they only made 1 huge bigadv dump and then switched to A3s, because they knew they would cross the finishing line before their next bigadv dump went in. I've also read that this is their defense for not making another "like" update beyond their first couple big dumps right out of the gate.

I'm new to this competition stuff, but I would think that changing the bigadv rigs to A3s would be similar to the idea of holding back points until the start of the competition. That is, doing something that in the long run, diminishes the output of our group for Team 32 and for the project to get more points within a small time window is not in the spirit of the competition. Although not a large number, I would think that if the bigadv rigs were changed to A3s, there would be overall less work actually completed over the next month.

Just my 2 cents...

...csm

I think its fine. The problem that is being investigated with EVGA is their big dump right out of the gate. It looks like WU priming and not WU timing. What was against the rules was intentionally stopping/pausing clients for the sole purpose of turning in those WUs at a later, specific date/time. What WUs (bigadv or A3) one chooses to Fold is entirely their option based on the given client configuration. The end of the day, it's really Stanfords option based on what they assign you... but they try to keep their donors happy.

Whilst I agree with both posts above:
Lets just keep our hands clean of ANY type of action.
We are doing well and doing it clean.

What he said... we're doing fine. I'm going to check-in with the Captains Forum tonight and see what all has shaken out with this EVGA business.

 

[Outback_Jon]

This is basically what I read that EVGA did. Except they only made 1 huge bigadv dump and then switched to A3s, because they knew they would cross the finishing line before their next bigadv dump went in. I've also read that this is their defense for not making another "like" update beyond their first couple big dumps right out of the gate.

I think its fine. The problem that is being investigated with EVGA is their big dump right out of the gate. It looks like WU priming and not WU timing. What was against the rules was intentionally stopping/pausing clients for the sole purpose of turning in those WUs at a later, specific date/time. What WUs (bigadv or A3) one chooses to Fold is entirely their option based on the given client configuration. The end of the day, it's really Stanfords option based on what they assign you... but they try to keep their donors happy.

I guess it is quite possible, and allowable, if they paused their rigs between units, and started them up again, knowing how long it takes for a unit to complete.

I would think that if they had the units complete, or nearly so, and held on to them before dumping, that they would have lost points in the long run. Since the bonus calculates from download time of the unit, it would hurt your bonus to not get it turned in as soon as it is complete.

If what they did, was time the start of their units, and then switch over to A3s, it makes sense, with how quick they complete their 20M. They would not have returned many, if any, -bigadv units after the initial update.

 

[DocLiv]

Holy flying money poo!!! We had a huge update and have taken back 3rd! WTF Monkeys!

When it looks like I'm on my last -bigadv for T32monkeys in the CC, I'm going set -oneunit, finish it, and fold A3's till the end. Then change back to folding -bigadv under my user name.

 

[Drugless]

Very cool poo! (or hot?)
C'mon peoples! There is still plenty we can throw at em!

 

[harlam357]

I guess it is quite possible, and allowable, if they paused their rigs between units, and started them up again, knowing how long it takes for a unit to complete.

I would think that if they had the units complete, or nearly so, and held on to them before dumping, that they would have lost points in the long run. Since the bonus calculates from download time of the unit, it would hurt your bonus to not get it turned in as soon as it is complete.

If what they did, was time the start of their units, and then switch over to A3s, it makes sense, with how quick they complete their 20M. They would not have returned many, if any, -bigadv units after the initial update.

There are just too many scenarios which could have resulted in their production variations. Many of which could have been done without breaking the rules. In any case, it's impossible to fully prove without more data that Stanford won't give us.

Although it looks fishy and I personally wrote the verbiage being used as the basis for the infraction... I'm probably going to vote to allow EVGA to remain the winner with no action against them.

Holy flying money poo!!! We had a huge update and have taken back 3rd! WTF Monkeys!

When it looks like I'm on my last -bigadv for T32monkeys in the CC, I'm going set -oneunit, finish it, and fold A3's till the end. Then change back to folding -bigadv under my user name.

Woot!!! 550k!!! Go Monkeys Go!!!!

Doc - I think that's the advisable thing to do in the last 2.x days of the challenge... and if we're going to do it, I can't fault EVGA for having already done it. Things still look fishy and I'm not 100% cool with what they did, but it's not enough to have me vote to DQ them.

 

[don256us]

Thanks for everything harlam357. You've done a great job and it is appreciated. Things like this will happen and it becomes difficult to enforce rules like this. The trap is that the reasoning behind punishing injustice can be too loose and harm those who did no harm. Our own stats show wild swings. What is the cut off from what they may have done and what we did?

For next year, please consider the "paid" v "volunteer" groups.

 

[harlam357]

Thanks don!

There's talk about a handicap system... which IMO will result in more hurt feelings than good will. I'm going to push for a "flight" system.

It's plain to see this year we have 3 groups of competitors and Teams with like PPD should do battle against others with like PPD. Even then it's not 100% fair or accurate, look at HWC... I wouldn't have expected them to do as well as they have. I know they've got some outside help from other Canadian Teams but still... they're giving all the "unsponsored" Teams a run for their money.

 

[harlam357]

Race Update

Well... it's all down to the "real" show. Now this is what I'm talking about. Good ole fashion Folding!!! We've stormed past the competition today to retake the 3rd position. Updates earlier today of 550k and just recently at 400k!!! Really great job everyone!!!

Regarding the EVGA issue, the one who was spearheading the "campaign" against EVGA's tactics has given up the pursuit. As I was going to vote to let things stand anyway I have also decided not to take up the invitation to continue said "campaign". I think we can safely say that EVGA has rubbed the rest of the Folding world the wrong way (again) and taken the coveted Jaded Monkey. Really, there are some nice folks over there... and I'm just poking the 800lbs gorilla with a little humor really.

Stay tuned Chimps and Monkeys!!!

 

[deadlysyn]

Figured I should get this posted up here as well, so everyone knows that we mean business.

It isn't over yet. I was just getting ready to load up the good old CPL (Cheesy Poof Launcher for those new to folding):

with some of this:


in the hopes of keeping the rest of the monkey teams at bay.