Pricing for Intel’s entire Kaby Lake X and Skylake X Core i9, i7 & i5 CPU leak

[EarthDog]

From either camp...

That said, growing pains are a part of every release. This is no different.
(also recall that people were bitching about the SATA errata ((that rhymes!)) on P67... so SB wasn't squeky clean either)

I, like Woomack, are seeing things blown WAY out of proportion for what it really seems to be. I will have more of a handle on the platform in a couple weeks after I have a few more reviews under my belt.

 

[custom90gt]

From either camp...

That said, growing pains are a part of every release. This is no different.
(also recall that people were bitching about the SATA errata ((that rhymes!)) on P67... so SB wasn't squeky clean either)

I, like Woomack, are seeing things blown WAY out of proportion for what it really seems to be. I will have more of a handle on the platform in a couple weeks after I have a few more reviews under my belt.

What's funny is I saw 6 of those P67 boards come in over a couple of years with dead SATA ports. The first one was still under ASUS warranty and it took them 4 months to replace it. The real funny thing is it was for a DVR system and the company was so frugal they waited the 4 months instead of just buying a replacement board...

 

[Woomack]

Every generation has some issues ... every. I think that IB was close to what was planned but every other gen had more or less issues. Intel is removing problematic parts before premiere. Nearly every generation had premiere delays because of issues which had to be corrected. It was or something smaller or whole bus/devices issue. Chipsets like X79 at first were designed with SAS controllers and 12 SATA/SAS ports in RAID ... what we got ? 6 SATA ? Just an example but there were other issues like power saving and USB ports.

X299 is clearly better than X99. CPU/core price is lower than last gen. Performance is higher. It heats up more but really who could run 5820K at 4.7GHz+ stable ? ... who could run 6800K at more than ~4.4GHz stable ? ... now you can make 4.5GHz at stock voltage on 10 cores even though it heats up more but is in safe temps range.
Vrm issue is not happening on air/water cooling as CPU will overheat faster than power section. If it overheats at stock then it's motherboard manufacturer's fault, not Intel. Max vrm temp on my board is ~70°C while CPU is at ~4.6GHz.
Throttling issue is not happening on my rig. CPU runs up to 102°C under full load and clock is stable. Another thing about which was loud couple of days ago.

Not saying it's a bad X299 platform is not saying much for the platform. If I would of seen comments like this X299 platform is so sweet or awesome that would be saying a lot. I have not seen comments like that since Sandy Bridge.

My point is there are no good comments while there are barely any sources of info. All comments about this platform are based on i9 price, comparison to threadripper which isn't even released and 2 issues which were described by 3 websites from what the loudest one was der8auer's vrm overheating issue and he is benching on LN2 at high voltages.
People are not buying this platform because of high price and bad comments so from where they have that info ? They believe in anything people post in the web and 99% of these news are reposts based on the same 1 source which doesn't match typical air/water cooled rig.

Except high temps at which this platform runs I see no issues. My board is the cheapest one which comes with 1 BIOS only. I mean it doesn't need 3-4 BIOS revisions to fix all issues like it was with most previous generations or whole Ryzen line. No improvements or anything and it's fully stable in everything. It runs 64GB RAM in quad channel at 3600 CL13 stable without issues. If there are some 10c+ issues in software then it's not hardware fault but programmers. The same will happen on every platform while people stick this "issue" to Skylake-X.

 

[habbajabba]

Tidbits for the masses. The boards/platforms look really nice, almost military-I wish. I'd personally run with ryzen if for no other reason than it seems more 'friendly' to me and cheaper, of course. X299/I9 seems to be an overclocker's shoein. I'd buy it just to build it. The 'only with intel' this and that is the one major drawback, price be damned. You could almost say intel wants to split from amd which I believe is the real problem. That and the fact they seem to think they should be THE dominating architecture simply because they have more money. imho

 

[TimoneX]

Performance is up somewhat and the cost of the state of the art desktop chips has fallen on a per core basis, though I think it's pretty clear the rate in which prices have fallen has been far slower than it'd have occurred had intel faced legit competition in the HEDT space for the past several years. The situation appears to be changing this year and I for one am looking forward to seeing what comes of it.

The x299 platform hasn't appealed to me in the slightest and would have to drop significantly in price to offer a compelling reason for me to dive in. The 7900x while obviously a powerful processor and cheaper than the previous 10 core offering is still overpriced on a $/performance and $/watt basis compared to AMD's offerings. Also I don't care much for the way in which intel has structured the platform's features...crippling processors to force buyers to buy higher up the stack. That's a policy that may come back to bite them if threadripper is well received as we already know AMD won't be doing likewise with x399 CPUs.

The 7920x in particular could look really tardy right out of the gate when compared alongside its 1920x competition with 64 PCIe lanes, support for ECC memory modules, a 600mhz higher base clock, and a price tag that's 33% lower.

 

[mackerel]

The complexity of choice means people have to think more about their use cases in deciding which platform is best for their needs. Even if they're in generally similar positions, the differences will be more decisive than the similarities. TR will have its strengths. Skylake-X has different strengths. Get the one for your use cases. For me, I'd take the much higher AVX2 performance over more PCIe lanes that will never get used... but I know that doesn't apply to everyone.

 

[Woomack]

The 7900x while obviously a powerful processor and cheaper than the previous 10 core offering is still overpriced on a $/performance and $/watt basis compared to AMD's offerings.

So far AMD hasn't released anything that can be compared to Skylake-X as a whole platform. We expect to see threadripper soon but we don't know details. Their 12-16 cores suppose to cost like 10 Intel cores but also will probably have lower frequency. If rumours are true then 16c threadripper will be 2x 1700/1700X/1800X so 2x wattage and 160-200W TDP. Also won't OC past 4GHz stable if there are no significant changes comparing to current Ryzen.
PCIE lanes mean nothing for most users. All what most need are ~20-28 lanes. ECC is supported on nearly every modern desktop platform. On most it's non-registered ECC but still it's ECC.

Ryzen is proving that even poor motherboards are more than enough for most users. X370 is really weak chipset while a lot of people decide they don't need more PCIE lanes and can live with B350 chipset which is even weaker. When you have 2+ high performance graphics cards or couple of additional controllers then it starts to count. So threadripper will be overkill for home computers and won't be professional enough for most business clients regardless what will support.

I'm not on any side. Simply both AMD and Intel made stupid moves this year and both push products which are interesting only on paper ( or for some really small group of users). Good for marketing but really bad for sales and practical usage. Ryzen is good but somehow too late and too fast at the same time. It made too much noise about issues and not much after premiere we already heard about stronger and improved chips. It was like they pushed unfinished product to make quick money on future improvements.

Intel will have a lot of problems if they won't release low power 4-6 cores for laptops and AMD release mobile version of Ryzen. Somehow I doubt that AMD make it on time as usual and we will stuck with 2 core mobile chips for longer.

 

[TimoneX]

We'll know for sure in a couple weeks. Given intel's behavior with their paper launches of higher core count skylake x skus and pulling in of coffee lake they sure seem to be concerned about something.

While a decent b370/x370 board and a 1700 represent a tremendous value in the "poor man's workstation" arena, I believe there's a significant market for higher end desktop CPUs on a no compromise platform. Obviously AMD believes similarly as that's precisely the market they're pursuing with threadripper/x399. While most may not need > 28 PCIe lanes, some do, and it seems a little silly that one must spend $1k on an intel CPU to exceed this artificial limitation on x299. Frankly I think, as others do, that the 7800x should be the entry level x series processor as the 7640x and 7740x are horribly crippled products that shouldn't even exist so the real cost of entry onto intel's premium desktop platform is actually quite high and for purely marketing reasons.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an 8 core threadripper product positioned between the 1800x and 1920x that provides a lower cost entry onto the x399 sooner rather than later. Such a product would, imo, sell quite well if it were priced at a small premium to the existing ryzen line...it'd also make the lower end skylake x chips look quite poor by comparison. Priced right between the 7800x and the 7820x it'd likely cause some disruptions for intel as people could potentially pay just a bit more than the $390 asking price for the 6 core 7800x and get 2 more cores and 36 more PCIe lanes.

While both chipmakers have made some missteps this year I think AMD has recovered faster from their gaffs and as a result their desktop product lines are better positioned at this time. Yeah, they need to get some zen based mobile chips out there, but as far as I know they're still on schedule to roll those out in early 2018.

 

[mackerel]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an 8 core threadripper product positioned between the 1800x and 1920x that provides a lower cost entry onto the x399 sooner rather than later. Such a product would, imo, sell quite well if it were priced at a small premium to the existing ryzen line...it'd also make the lower end skylake x chips look quite poor by comparison. Priced right between the 7800x and the 7820x it'd likely cause some disruptions for intel as people could potentially pay just a bit more than the $390 asking price for the 6 core 7800x and get 2 more cores and 36 more PCIe lanes.

To provide quad channel memory they need 4 CCX. It is possible to use 2 cores on each CCX but this seems a bit wasteful. Then again, they already do that on R5 quad core parts.

Alternatively they could go two CCX but this is basically a 1700/1800 on X399. That could end up being AMD's Kaby Lake X if they did that.

For most people I don't think it adds much value. Only if they need a lot of IO, but without much CPU, since B350/X370 is good enough.

 

[TimoneX]

It'll happen imo. There's a $300 gap between the 1800x and 1920x and That won't be allowed to exist for long. The 1920x is overpriced relative to the 1950x so that likely comes down, but that still leaves a large hole there particularly as the 1700 is the real value 8 core part and it's going for all of $270ish. Something's going to fill that void and there are only 2 parts announced for x399 thus far.

 

[wingman99]

I checked on Newegg and the best selling x299 platform processor is the i7 7740X second best selling i5 7640X https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...odeId=1&bop=And&Order=BESTSELLING&PageSize=36. Intel's marketing sure knows what the general public does. Forums like this are nice, however Joe public just looks at the product numbers and for them a i7 7740X is better than i7 7700k. I'v worked in computer retail and 90% of the public is clueless.

 

[EarthDog]

90% of the public doesnt order from newegg either..or at least piece their pc together themselves...

 

[wingman99]

That is my point 90% of the public is clueless they just go by product numbers.

 

[EarthDog]

While my point is saying many who order from newegg have half a clue (and dont purchase by 'number'...) vs the 90% who order complete systems not through newegg. So your datapoint is by more enthusiasts than the clueless like you are saying.

Anyway, appreciate the link.

I checked on Newegg and the best selling x299 platform processor is the i7 7740X second best selling i5 7640X https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...odeId=1&bop=And&Order=BESTSELLING&PageSize=36. Intel's marketing sure knows what the general public does. Forums like this are nice, however Joe public just looks at the product numbers and for them a i7 7740X is better than i7 7700k. I'v worked in computer retail and 90% of the public is clueless.

Random necro here... I was finally at a PC so I clicked on that link... the first CPU up......... the 7800X with the 77/7640 next... What a difference a day makes????

 

[wingman99]

Your still not getting my point about i7 7700k VS i7 7740X. Intel's marking is genius selling a i7 7740X when a i7 7700k is the same performance at a lower total cost. People think i7 7740X is a upgrade because of the product numbers increase. I can't believe so many folks don't do the research and when they do the research they still justify by the product numbers.

Most newegg folks are clueless, take a look at these reviews.

This review is from: Intel Core i7-7740X Quad-Core 4.3 GHz LGA 2066 112W BX80677I77740X Desktop Processor
Pros: With Newegg deal @$499 w/gaming-3 motherboard the price is competitive with 7700k. Fastest desktop processor you can buy with strong overclocking capability. Supports faster memory than 7700k. In my experience so far it runs quite cool with corsair h100i clc. I am upgrading from a laptop with an older i7 and the performance difference is an order of magnitude better.

Cons: Limited mother board options, some options are quite pricey. Only 2 instead of 4 memory channels. Negative reviews will scare some people away.

Other Thoughts: I would recommend this to anyone upgrading from an older processor that is looking at the i7-7700k. If you are trying to build a high end gaming or work machine at a reasonable price this is a good chip. No on board graphics which is fine, since at this product category you should buy a discrete gpu which will complement the chip well.

This review is from: Intel Core i7-7740X Quad-Core 4.3 GHz LGA 2066 112W BX80677I77740X Desktop Processor
Pros: - read all the tech reviews the 7740X is basically an overclocked 7700K
- this means you get the best FPS in all games (check benchmarks in 1440p or 4k)
- better than AMD 1800X and 7700K and even i9 for gaming
- highest GHz means best gaming performance (except 1080p)

Cons: - loses FPS in 1080p
- requires more expensive X299 board
- only good for gaming so don't spend the extra money for it if you really wanna do other stuff

Other Thoughts: - only get this if you want the uttermost best gaming FPS no matter what

 

[EarthDog]

Lol, i got you man....just forget it.

 

[PetrolHead]

Most newegg folks are clueless, take a look at these reviews.

Those reviews were so positive that I had to go and re-read the gamersnexus.net's conclusion on the i7-7740X. It still started with "there’s no reason to buy this CPU", so I had to re-read the reviews. I guess they're following some other tech sites.

 

[Woomack]

I don't trust most reviews as most reviewers are not testing hardware right or simply say that all is fine when they get free hardware for tests. For instance I remember when Gigabyte didn't want to talk to my friend for half year when he made honest review of their motherboard. They wanted him to change the text and remove everything negative and he said no because he didn't want to lie. However I meet some vendors who ask me to make honest reviews regardless if it's positive or negative and I respect that.

 

[TimoneX]

There are a bunch of companies selling Ryzen ThreadRipper PCs, including Alienware, Origin PC, MAINGEAR, iBUYPOWER, Cyberpower PC and more. The new Ryzen ThreadRipper PCs start at just $1699, which coincidentally is the same price as the Intel Core i9-7960X on its own, which costs $1700.

Read more: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58592/full-pc-amd-ryzen-threadripper-starts-1699/index.html

Intel had better hope threadripper turns out to be a bunch of hype...or their HEDT lunch = eaten. Given the way it's designed I suspect margins on threadripper are such that intel cannot win a pricing war at the top end with AMD. More likely INTC will maintain their pricing structure and attempt to weather this storm, hoping they can find some way to compete next product cycle. Obviously the real battle is xeon vs epyc, but since both companies are using lightly altered server parts in their HEDT product lines this may be indicative of what's to come.

 

[mackerel]

If Intel were to drop pricing significantly in response, it would hurt AMD more than it does Intel. Luckily for AMD Intel will likely prioritise profits and not respond too much. AMD have no choice but to undercut Intel to gain significant share. An Intel drop would put them in a painful place of either keeping share but bleeding more money, or hinder growth at higher pricing. They're not doing this out generosity, but it is a basic business need.

Also their HEDT strategies aren't exact. Threadripper is going after cores and PCIe lanes. Intel has more clock potential (even if not at stock) and much faster AVX for those workloads that use it. Choice will come down to the use case.