Whats the best gaming headphones

[BigRed]

In a lot of these magazines and such, you'll see reviews and articles about amplifiers. How they compare, which sounds better, etc... They will say with absolute certainty that they hear some special quality in one amp that isn't the same in the other. Warm midrange, smooth highs, fuller bass, sparkling detail, and all sorts of adjectives that people would normally use to describe food... All in an attempt to say that the amp simply has a sonic character that causes it to sound different than the other amp at the same volume and neither amp distorting. And, these are usually extremely high quality amps with ruler flat response, very low distortion, noise free, etc...great specs.

I have heard those sorts of differences in amps myself, although I would have been hard pressed to put descriptive terms on them like they do. I probably would have just said, "This one creates a slightly more believable auditory illusion." And, maybe try to pinpoint why.

But, how do you eliminate psychological effects from testing amps? With a double blind test.

There's a guy named Richard Clark...he has a lot of education with audio stuff and science and physics in general. Has made a lot of money for himself, owns a company that makes CD's, and a few other ventures. Has some patents on various audio stuff that he developed. Someone introduced double blind testing to him years ago and he learned that with amps, as long as they meet certain standards (basically a decent, modern amp without serious design flaws) and are used within their linear operating range (not into distortion) that people cannot reliably tell the difference between two amps with their sense of hearing. He brought it up to the community...some accepted it, most did not. He ended up refining his test and turning it into a $10,000 challenge. If anyone can tell the difference between any two amps that meet some very basic requirements in his double blind test, they win $10,000 of his own money. If they lose, nothing happens other than a possible education on amps. So far, thousands have taken his challenge...no one has won.

Basically, in that challenge, people get to pick what amps, what speakers, what music, have control of the volume the whole time, and can switch between amp A, amp B, and an unknown that is either A or B at will. Their task it to try to determine if the unknown is A or B, then rinse and repeat. They are unaware which amp is actually playing, and the person administering the test is also unaware since the unknown is randomly generated by a computer. (That's the double blind part.) People often believe they hear a difference while taking the test and are getting it right every time...expect to get a perfect score, then end up with results as though they had flipped a coin each time. Some people realize part way through the test that all three options sound the same once they can only rely on their sense of hearing.

So... In this contest we get to choose the amp, speakers (headphones?), AND music?

How is that a fair contest and/or test? Someone could just pick a tube amp and a solid state amp and win Its very easy to tell the difference in the sound between those.

Or just pick amps that are not in the same class. Ive heard a $3,800 amp before (Headroom Blockhead) and it beats the crap out of my headroom MOH. I agree that most of those review people are full of **** but you can tell a difference between different classes of amps. Granted there is more of a difference in low-mid class than mid-high but its still easy to tell the difference.

I disagree with the fact that as long as certain components meet requirements you cant tell the difference.
Example: My cables for the HD650's. Ive tried the ZuMobius and the silverdragon HD650 cables (one is copper/silver, the latter is all silver) and there is a most noteable difference in them. Plus like I said about the amps there is a most noteable difference between the type of amp (Tube/solid state) and its class (low-mid-high).

 

[John G]

So... In this contest we get to choose the amp, speakers (headphones?), AND music?

How is that a fair contest and/or test? Someone could just pick a tube amp and a solid state amp and win Its very easy to tell the difference in the sound between those.

Or just pick amps that are not in the same class. Ive heard a $3,800 amp before (Headroom Blockhead) and it beats the crap out of my headroom MOH. I agree that most of those review people are full of **** but you can tell a difference between different classes of amps. Granted there is more of a difference in low-mid class than mid-high but its still easy to tell the difference.

I disagree with the fact that as long as certain components meet requirements you cant tell the difference.
Example: My cables for the HD650's. Ive tried the ZuMobius and the silverdragon HD650 cables (one is copper/silver, the latter is all silver) and there is a most noteable difference in them. Plus like I said about the amps there is a most noteable difference between the type of amp (Tube/solid state) and its class (low-mid-high).

Yep, he allows a lot of latitude.

He does allow tube amps vs. solid state with a few considerations... Remember that both amps aren't allowed to distort significantly. He will limit the max volume to the lesser of the two. The biggest real difference between tube and solid state is how they perform under overload conditions. If the tube amp is an exceptionally good design, that'll be all that's required. If the output impedance is found to be excessively high (super low damping factor, leads to shifts in frequency response depending on the speaker load), he will add a resistor in line with the speaker on the solid state amp to degrade it down to the level of the tube amp to level the playing field. It turned out a lot of people's "warm tube sound" was just horrible output impedance...solid state amps can have it too with less than $5 worth of parts. The rest is the abundance of 2nd order distortion when driven into overload...which an amp meant for high fidelity reproduction should not be allowed to overload in the first place. No one has been able to pick out a tube from solid state under those conditions yet.

With an amp having a lot more headroom (or just pure power output capability), that can indeed have an audible difference at high volumes in the real world. However, as mentioned before, if neither amp is allowed into distortion significantly (an amp running out of headroom would distort), you won't be able to tell during the test. As long as both amps have decent (real) specs, you can compare a $250 HT receiver to a pair of $10,000 monoblocks and not be able to tell the difference during the test. But, the max volume will be limited to what the receiver is capable of. Most of the time people take the challenge, they are comparing "budget junk" to something expensive.

That's okay, since the purpose of the challenge isn't to show that one amp can play louder than another (we already know that), but that there isn't any mysterious sonic character that science can't put a finger on when you use X audiophile transistor, or Y audiophile circuit design.

On the comparison between your headphone cables, there may really be a difference between the two, but it would boil down to one or both of the cables not really doing their job as a cable right (changing the sound somehow, which neither should do) by having high resistance or inductance or a break one of the conductors or something like that. Probably not the case, though. Most likely, both are good cables. Even so, I would not doubt that you heard a difference between the two. I have heard such differences myself with amps and cables and such. However, when I put them into a fair test, the differences would fall away and I couldn't even tell what I was listening too. Then, mind armed with a new set of knowledge and expectations, I was perfectly happy listening to either one.

John G

 

[Gongo56]

HELP CALL FEMA MY THREAD'S BEEN DERAILED.

hah.. thanks guys... dsp-500's it is.

 

[funnyperson1]

Depends on personal preference, really. If you're going to be gaming w/ headphones, you should select a set that are comfortable to wear for extended periods, and have a nice sound range (again, even that is personal preference).

I use a set of Sony MRD-CD 280's, and they're very nice, comfortable headphones w/ nice clean sound.

I also have these headphones. Not the best for music, but they do pretty well for games, gunshots and explosions are quite impressive.

Also they are the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn, and I have worn a lot of headphones. The soft felt covered pads go around your ears and the band auto-adjusts to your head. On top of it all they are pretty light for the size. They do tend to get a little warm though after a while.

For around $20 bucks these are great phones for long gaming sessions.

 

[redken]

About a year ago when I was in the dilemma of choosing the right set of cans for me, I looked high and low for the best I could find at a reasonable price having "gaming" in mind not really music.
After testing most of the cans mentioned here (most very good) and doing a lot of research, I decided that the Grado SR-80 were for me. My Audigy (P) dives them like a dream and I used some old Senheiser pads to make them more comfy.

 

[BigRed]

Yep, he allows a lot of latitude.

He does allow tube amps vs. solid state with a few considerations... Remember that both amps aren't allowed to distort significantly. He will limit the max volume to the lesser of the two. The biggest real difference between tube and solid state is how they perform under overload conditions. If the tube amp is an exceptionally good design, that'll be all that's required. If the output impedance is found to be excessively high (super low damping factor, leads to shifts in frequency response depending on the speaker load), he will add a resistor in line with the speaker on the solid state amp to degrade it down to the level of the tube amp to level the playing field. It turned out a lot of people's "warm tube sound" was just horrible output impedance...solid state amps can have it too with less than $5 worth of parts. The rest is the abundance of 2nd order distortion when driven into overload...which an amp meant for high fidelity reproduction should not be allowed to overload in the first place. No one has been able to pick out a tube from solid state under those conditions yet.

With an amp having a lot more headroom (or just pure power output capability), that can indeed have an audible difference at high volumes in the real world. However, as mentioned before, if neither amp is allowed into distortion significantly (an amp running out of headroom would distort), you won't be able to tell during the test. As long as both amps have decent (real) specs, you can compare a $250 HT receiver to a pair of $10,000 monoblocks and not be able to tell the difference during the test. But, the max volume will be limited to what the receiver is capable of. Most of the time people take the challenge, they are comparing "budget junk" to something expensive.

That's okay, since the purpose of the challenge isn't to show that one amp can play louder than another (we already know that), but that there isn't any mysterious sonic character that science can't put a finger on when you use X audiophile transistor, or Y audiophile circuit design.

On the comparison between your headphone cables, there may really be a difference between the two, but it would boil down to one or both of the cables not really doing their job as a cable right (changing the sound somehow, which neither should do) by having high resistance or inductance or a break one of the conductors or something like that. Probably not the case, though. Most likely, both are good cables. Even so, I would not doubt that you heard a difference between the two. I have heard such differences myself with amps and cables and such. However, when I put them into a fair test, the differences would fall away and I couldn't even tell what I was listening too. Then, mind armed with a new set of knowledge and expectations, I was perfectly happy listening to either one.

John G

I have listened to both my headroom MOH (high-mid range solid state) and a SinglePower MPX3 (High-mid range tube amp which had $300 worth of upgrades/mods done ot it) side by side. Listening to the same part of a song ive heard tons of times on good equipment (FYI, a perfet circle - weak and powerless) and there is most certainly a difference. Granted it is small but the audio has a different... character to it.

I moreso prefer solid state amps cause I hate the 'tubey' sound (sounds too.. muddy). On the tube amp the bass sounded like it was under water and everything wasnt as clear.

Whats this guys contact #/email now?

The cables for the headphones are both the highest quality cables you can get. Silver and copper just have different acustical properties, or prehaps one is more conductive than the other.

 

[John G]

I have listened to both my headroom MOH (high-mid range solid state) and a SinglePower MPX3 (High-mid range tube amp which had $300 worth of upgrades/mods done ot it) side by side. Listening to the same part of a song ive heard tons of times on good equipment (FYI, a perfet circle - weak and powerless) and there is most certainly a difference. Granted it is small but the audio has a different... character to it.

I moreso prefer solid state amps cause I hate the 'tubey' sound (sounds too.. muddy). On the tube amp the bass sounded like it was under water and everything wasnt as clear.

Whats this guys contact #/email now?

The cables for the headphones are both the highest quality cables you can get. Silver and copper just have different acustical properties, or prehaps one is more conductive than the other.

I'm not sure if he still checks it or if it's up to date, but [email protected] is an email address I know of offhand. I have a couple possible phone numbers too. If you're serious about contacting him, I could ask him what the best way would be. He's in North Carolina. He used to do his challenge a lot, but has gotten a little bored with it over the years. He'll typically do it for pretty much anybody, but isn't as willing to travel himself very far anymore without a good reason. People are typically always welcome to come to him. It's a real good learning experience for someone who's really into audio gear.

Typically, when people compare gear even fairly or blindly, the most common thing that causes them to actually hear a difference are very small level differences. Very small level differences often aren't perceived as one being louder than the other, but one being slightly more involving, dynamic, etc. than the other. People with good, trained ears can hear small differences like that. In RC's challenge, he usually does two rounds...in the first round he just sets it all up pretty close to save time. Sometimes he comes across someone with an exceptional ear and they pass. If they do, he uses an Audio Precision to measure and matches the levels to within 0.05 db for the second round and then no body passes that.

I don't like tube gear either. Usually, they just don't have enough power capability, so you get audible distortion when trying to listen at a reasonable level. That, and the often horrible output impedance... Damping factors over 20-30 can't be heard anymore, but a lot of tube amps end up in single digits. That's why a lot want high nominal impedance speakers, to improve the effective damping factor. Now, guitar amps and stuff are another story altogether...guitar amps usually MAKE sound rather than just amplify. With the intention of making sound, tube amps can be good.

Silver and copper do have different eletrical properties. (Other metals included.) However, they are very measurable and predictable. Silver has slightly higher conductivity, which gives you slightly lower resistance for the same size cable. But, unless resistance is a problem design wise, it's not going to impact the sound other than maybe an imperceptable drop in level. Also, from an engineering perspective, for less money with copper you can have a heavier cable even better electrical properties than silver.

Just to pick on the audiophiles a little bit... How much good can a silver cable really do when you pass the signal through the 30+ ft of copper wire in the inductors of the passive crossover on a speaker, then through the copper interconnects in the speaker, through the aluminum voice coil in the tweeter, through the copper voice coils in the woofers, etc...? To which they might say, "Well, that's why we need all silver voice coils and passive crossover components." However, there are other properties of metals that actually make silver a poor choice for voice coils. Copper and aluminum are really pretty much the only good choices available, depending on what you are trying to do.

BTW, sorry about hijacking the thread...

John G