But Does It Boot Windows? . . .

Since Apple Macintoshes are PCs these days, I guess we need to talk about them a bit more often.

Apple introduced the Intel-based Mac mini yesterday. I have just one question:

Does it boot Windows? If it doesn’t, it is useless to me.

I would like to have a decently-powered small computer I can carry around with me, whether around the house or outside it.

To kill two birds with one stone, I would like to try MacOS X, provided it doesn’t cost me too much extra.

This Mac mini doesn’t look too bad. Yes, it has integrated graphics, yes, the hard drive is slow, but this box will never play a game, and I can compensate for the hard drive with extra RAM.

Yes, I’m sure I could buy or put together a smallish A64, or even Intel-based box that could kick the Mac mini around the block a few times, but I don’t need a powerhouse, and those boxes won’t run MacOS X without serious and dubious hacking.

So I could live with the Mac mini’s hardware shortcomings, I’m definitely a potential customer, but . . .

Does it boot Windows? If it doesn’t, it is useless to me.

You see, I never was, am, or ever would be a candidate for a Mac-only machine. Not going to spend a grand or two or three to buy a machine endorsed by too many cultists.

But I’ll spend a couple hundred dollars extra for an extended tryout, and if it ends up that I see fireworks, the ground moves, and I end up in post-Macual bliss, so be it.

But if it ends up not being so good for me, I’ll still have a perfectly usable Windows machine good enough for what I want to do with it.

So it has to boot Windows. If it doesn’t, it is useless to me.

(To literally answer my question, though I haven’t found chapter and verse yet, the Mac Mini probably won’t boot Windows XP for the same EFI reason the iMac won’t. OK, no money from
me until Vista and/or Apple takes care of that little problem, but that’s not the point of this article).

I’m sure some of those cultists mentioned above would and will call me a pig for that requirement, or for being a Doubting Thomas.

Fine, I’m a pig, I’ve got lots of Windows s–t, and I’ve been happy enough wallowing in it. If you can show me better at little risk to me, fine, but I’m hanging on to my feces just in case.

Fine, my new middle name is Thomas, and until I put my hand into X’s side, I will not believe.

Macdom, you need doubting pigs like me.

One rather large problem with the Mac world today is that they often come across as a bunch of female clowns in clown regalia walking around saying, “Hey, we’re hot supermodels,” and when the PC world says, “No, you look like a bunch of clowns,” they reply (and say to see other), “They’re just jealous of us.”

It still is an inbred group that needs new blood, and not just the occasional cluster of Windows advocates (who often have, shall we say, their own issues) who show up at Mac sites.

To be fair, Macdom has been changing on its own. Even before the Intel move, the general culture has been evolving towards a more PC-like attitude to the machines, more hard-nosedness, less hero-worship.

Imagine what would happen if an onslaught of pigs like me show up.

You see, I might be a pig in your eyes, but there’s a lot more pigs like me than there are of you, and if we give your side a shot, we’re going to bring a much difference experience and attitude to Macdom.

For one thing, on the whole, we’re much more nuts and bolts guys than the typical Macster, and much less likely to swallow whatever Uncle Stevie says. Not that such people don’t exist in Macdom today (and it’s much better today than it was five years ago), but if a drove, an armada of Winpigs shows up, the proportion of such skeptical and critical users will go up dramatically.

For another, in one sense, we really are pigs in that we’re, well, less sensitive, than many Macsters, and less likely to have our hearts set aflutter by superficial and/or trivial aesthetic features. We’ll likely value such things much less, and say, “Where’s the beef?” much more.

Pigs like us will on the whole probably be more biOSual than the typical Macster (those who are currently Mac biOSuals tend to be much less ridiculous about the matter than those who don’t and equate Windows with waterboarding). We’ll do it by choice, too, we’ll use whatever fits the task best.

Pigs like us will change the Mac culture, it will be the finishing blow to cultish, ghettoish Macdom as we’ve known it. What will happen is that Macdom will stop being a cult, and while the elitism will probably still stay, there will be more reason for it. Apple will stop looking like Apple, and gradually morph into something looking more like Alienware.

And that will be a very good thing, a tougher audience will mean better Macs in the long run.

But it has to boot Windows. If it doesn’t, it is useless to us.


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Avatar of Midnight Dream
Midnight Dream


2,420 messages 0 likes

"Does it boot Windows? If it doesn't, it is useless to me."

Why exactly??????? What makes Ed so tied not just to a platform but an OS?

Is is compatability..... don't make me laugh.....

Is it software...... what piece of code does Ed need to run that either isn't available on OS X or doesn't have a suitable replacement?

"Not going to spend a grand or two or three to buy a machine endorsed by too many cultists"

Wow that's a really grown up way of thinking. You can put the above quote another way......

"I'm not going to spend money on a piece of hardware purely because I don't like the attitidue of people who own them - regardless of if it improves my computing experience " - That's a pathetic excuse for not buying a machine.


I have yet to read the article, I will do that later, but I can tell just from the two short clips mentioned above that A), the article is biased, and I am having trouble seeing a reasoning for its publishing. A machine that is useless, if it does not boot windows? Dont make me laugh, there are plenty of things that dont boot windows that people use. How many servers do you think you visit that are run from Linux? Just a small example.

And for B), the obvious jab towards mac users is both laughable and insulting. I myself have a mac laptop, I purchased it third party, and there has yet to be something that I wanted to do on my windows box, that I could not do on it.

-Midnight Dream.

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Avatar of greyharte


598 messages 0 likes


lol .... must be a mac envy

read it again ... because nowhere did i ever get those inferences from what Ed wrote

what i got is ... he's curious, however if it doesnt work out, since it is pc based after all, can he load and boot windows on it ... and at least be able to use it for something else ... if not then it is useless and he wasted money on something that for him is little more than a 1000.00 door stop ... he's even stated that he would be willing to load OS-x on a pc-centric machine except that for all intents and purposes it would be a hack job and illegal at this time

now if you want to criticize the diatribe between, by all means ... but no where did i see Ed infer that he wouldnt be willing to try, or that hes stuck on a given OS ... im sure Ed has at least 1 linux box somewhere in his menagerie, and im quite sure that current mac-centric machines cant run linux ... so its as much about versatitlity as anything

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Avatar of ticktock123


288 messages 0 likes

wow did i miss something here? Who is ed? and what is this thing talking aobut ( am guessing from what people were saying is that that it is a Mac V PC thing...huh...sorry guys

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Avatar of mdameron


970 messages 0 likes

This is 'front page discussions'. Ed is a writer for the front page. The front page is www.overclockers.com

He wrote an article, now we're discussing it. I agree with Ed, to stay on topic.

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Avatar of JaY_III


4,055 messages 0 likes

I too agree
the extra $300 for a Mac Box would be worth it if i could fall back on Windows if OS X just doesnt work out.

Untill i can run Windows on a Mac, its just too much of a gamble to try an Intel Mac

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Avatar of gt24


882 messages 0 likes

I think a nicer way of putting it is like this...

What makes an "Intel" Mac special? Despite the fact that we are computer geeks, the hardware that is underneath our operating systems is a moot point (other than speed considerations perhaps... :)). So, it doesn't matter to me if the Mac is running PPC or Intel or anything else. It still boils down to the fact that a Mac is a Mac, I run Windows primarily, and I'm not spending money (at least, not much money) on experimentation. Windows does what I need it to do and I can rely on it to get me to the net and run my applications. Thus, for a Windows user who is only toying with other operating systems, a machine that doesn't boot Windows is essentially not worth its' huge price to me.

In other words, if a Mac could boot Windows it is instantly a more valuable machine to everybody since it could boot Windows, Mac, and Linux operating systems. If Windows no worky there then it isn't much of a change from Macs of the past to me. It has a lot less appeal.

At least, that is how I interprited it.

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Avatar of larva

Inactive Moderator

5,535 messages 0 likes

Is it software...... what piece of code does Ed need to run that either isn't available on OS X or doesn't have a suitable replacement?

I guess you've never heard of ArcGIS, Erdas Imagine, TransCAD, or the host of other technical and scientific software packages not developed for the Mac OS. As the work goes from IPod hosting to actual computing, the best Mac users can hope for in many instances is to run PC software via emulation. When you want to run PC software, there is no suitable replacement for a PC. Once you've realized Macs do lock up and don't actually operate themselves, that leaves a Mac that has no chance of running PC software natively completely unattractive to many users.

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1,353 messages 0 likes

i scanned this article, and its all sound and fury... ed can and has done far better.
maybe he was fairly moved and wanted to show it, but when i saw the new mac mini announcment in the news section of oc-rev.com the other day, i thought
"okay, a baby yonah box, with mac only software and a big pricetag"
i really dont see anything more to it. either someone finds a way to dual boot (or MSFT 100%) or they dont (so untill then, we have things like the VIA tinyboxen). as ed so thoughtfully pointed out, its not like theyre stopping anyone outright... i think its just another (extra-proprietary) box.

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Avatar of Vipersfate


1,048 messages 0 likes

I love macs. stable. But they just don't work with what I want to do. Now if they start making programs universal..basically, if it runs in windows, it can run in os X as well..then I'll start looking more.

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Avatar of speed bump
speed bump


2,761 messages 0 likes

Same thing could be said about Ipods.

However I am biased in my opinion becuase I believe that what mac does is take away enough options so that you cant easily hurt yourself make it look pretty and then sell it to you not giving you the ability to use those options. Windows does the opposite it gives you pretty much every option and unfortunetly not every user should be allowed to have every option.

As far as programs apple has itunes for music I would rather have an Ogg or WMA codec then what do I do? For office you buy a Microsoft program. For CAD well I am out of luck autodesk no longer makes Mac versions. Games yes the are available but why exactly would I pay twice as much for the same performance in a game?

Anyway I like Yonahs so it could end up being something cool if I could run Linux on it.

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