That's fine. I'm somewhat new to the whole 'forum' thing. I'm a 4th year engineering student who got tired of having a ridiculously hot bedroom after writing a lab report. I intend to build a loop and place the heat exchanger outside.
I'm definitely interested in trying to find cheap, but equally functional, (and reliable) generic components that I can use to complete this loop.
Quick question. I was going to head to the machine shop tomorrow and do some more work on this. The dimensions for mobo mounts for LGA 775 are 72mm by 72mm correct?
Also, does anyone know the diameter of the mounting holes?
So it's been a little while since I've put anything up here.
I've been doing alot of research, as far as material compatibility, galvanic series, etc.
Anyway, unfortunately, copper is very high in activity on the galvanic series and aluminum, while still active is less active, creating a galvanic potential. Which means in laymans terms that the copper will corrode preferentially unless I can electrically connect something with A higher activity to it.
The most suitable metal with a higher activity is magnesium and magnesium is expensive! Also I have been unable to find a supplier raw material.
Because I want to have a zero-to-no maintenance setup, I'm using a solution of fluid that doesn't react with aluminum or copper. I am choosing a mixture of glycerine and ethanol, (glycerine being soluble in ethanol). I am hoping to achieve a mixture slightly more viscous than water. I plan on making up for the increased viscosity by using a 12-1800 gph pump at this point http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance
Glycerine as it turns out, is commercially available, and has only ~2.14X worse thermal conductivity than water (0.285 vs 0.609 W/m-k @300k) and ethanol is also comercially available,(in many flavors I might add) which is only ~3.6X (0.171 vs .609 W/m-k @300k) I'm estimating, (I'm not sure b/c I can't seem to find any research on ethanol-glycerine working fluid solutions) that I should be able to achieve without much difficulty of ~.35 X the thermal conductivitiy of water, and I shouldn't have to worry about internal corrosion. Also, the solution doesn't conduct electricity, which is a plus because I don't want to have to worry about leaking
I completed the last of the parts w/ internal surface area and fit everything up and did some basic leak testing with the bolts hand tightened. No leaks.
I do have two questions:
-My room-mate drives an Evo VIII and has the stock inter-cooler lying around and he'd be willing to give it to me for cheap. Anyone else used an inter-cooler or have any experience fabbing up automotive parts to work in closed cooling loop setups? Are there better heat exchangers that can flow more fluid efficiently that are available cheaply?
Secondly, there are holes in the back of my case for watercooler, however, they aren't big enough. Right now they're ~.85", they need to be ~1.05". Does anyone know of a good way to open the holes up without totally destroying the back of the case
The top portion of the flow-redirecting section, w/ an o ring present illustrating a basic gland-seal.
Lower view of same section
A photo of all the brass fittings I have ordered so far, I still need to more for the inlet and exit of the radiator I'm going to use.
A view of the inlet of a high flow, quick-connect, female fitting, w/ male 3/4" NPT threads
View of inlet of high flow, quick-connect, male fitting, w/ male 3/4" NPT threads
This isn't something I can achieve with this particular loop, but the high flow fittings are good to ~7000 psi
Here's a photo depicting of how I'm going to connect the pump/reservoir/inter-cooler through the rear wall of my case
A view showing the thickness of the copper base
A view showing the depth of the coolant channel
The readout displays .5945" and .5295", leaving a wall thickness of .065" Which is pretty fantastic
I do have two questions:
-My room-mate drives an Evo VIII and has the stock inter-cooler lying around and he'd be willing to give it to me for cheap. Anyone else used an inter-cooler or have any experience fabbing up automotive parts to work in closed cooling loop setups? Are there better heat exchangers that can flow more fluid efficiently that are available cheaply?
I'm not sure about intercoolers, but heatercores are a relatively common (much more so in the past than now) radiator. I don't see why an intercooler would be any different, provided it has a similar design to computer radiators (multi-pipe parallel flow, either single/double row). From what I'd imagine, intercoolers have a higher fin-density (which means they prefer having strong, high-static-pressure fans).
You could run the water through the charge air section, it's an interesting concept.
Pump wise, 100% of the energy consumed by the pump ends up as heat somewhere. Plenty of it radiates into the air from the motor body of the heat though.
You could run the water through the charge air section, it's an interesting concept.
Pump wise, 100% of the energy consumed by the pump ends up as heat somewhere. Plenty of it radiates into the air from the motor body of the heat though.
I've never understood this concept. How do you figure? For instance, take the 10W DDC for instance. People always say it will dump 10W of heat into the loop. But if it's pulling 10W of power from the supply (12v @ 0.833A), you're saying ALL 10W of that power is being converted into heat, which is obviously untrue (since the motor is spinning).
I've never understood this concept. How do you figure? For instance, take the 10W DDC for instance. People always say it will dump 10W of heat into the loop. But if it's pulling 10W of power from the supply (12v @ 0.833A), you're saying ALL 10W of that power is being converted into heat, which is obviously untrue (since the motor is spinning).
It's a worst-case thing. You're never going to see MORE than 10W of heat dumped into the loop from that pump. Also, if you take the power of the spinning impeller (as in like, power AT the impeller) you'll find it's much less than 10W, the rest (or, the VAST majority of it) has become heat.
I've never understood this concept. How do you figure? For instance, take the 10W DDC for instance. People always say it will dump 10W of heat into the loop. But if it's pulling 10W of power from the supply (12v @ 0.833A), you're saying ALL 10W of that power is being converted into heat, which is obviously untrue (since the motor is spinning).
small brushless motors are ~40% efficient, so 60% lost as heat without doing any work.
40% left of electrical in... can leave by vibration, heat, or power signaling.
most of 40% is power used to turn the motor, ie overcome friction. energy used to overcome friction is dissipated as heat.
Some small amount is lost from vibration energy, which is why we decouple them for noise.
Some very small amount maybe lost in electric signaling.
Not to mention power input isnt 10W, but for example 9-11W (since nitpicking) varies second to second, and 10% or so lost to air.
But designing a cooling solution, you would use 10W, like previously said, since it is worst case scenario, and probably most accurate estimate of pump. Not to mention it will be by far the most accurate estimate in terms of number of watts of any other component. Since for example estimating power of GPU will be off by more than 10 watts, the entire wattage of pump.
All of the "work" the pump does is overcoming friction, which generates heat quite literally in the loop.
There is some electrical energy that escapes as magnetic fields induced in nearby metal is lost to heat.
Even the vibrations are eventually lost to heat via friction inside the medium the vibration is traveling through.
It's a rather interesting concept when you get down to it, everything is powered by fusion, and all energy consumed by anything eventually ends up as heat. It can take a while in some cases though.
Now that said, 10w is nothing compared to modern CPU/GPUs.
Hm. Quite obviously though, if the water is moving, not all of the work the pump does is to overcome friction, it overcomes friction (turns into heat) and then the rest of that energy is converted into kinetic energy. The amount of kinetic energy can't be negligible compared to the amount of heat, can it?
I do understand the idea of using it as an upper-bound on heat dump, that makes sense. And honestly, I think it's kind of negligible anyhow, since 10-20W isn't a particularly significant addition of heat to a loop compared to a 250-500W GPU or 100W CPU. I'm just curious.
Also, sorry for off-topic, this is my last post regarding this, I just felt the need to ask since I've never understood the aforementioned claim.
Okay so my plan is to take an A/A intercooler and modify it to accept fluid. Effectively, I'm going to cap the ends and modify the ends to accept the pipe fittings that I'm using everywhere else on this loop. Then it is going to be mounted as shown so that the fluid flows vertically upwards through the intercooler. This way, the fluid has the slowest velocity, and it also ensures that every bit of surface area possible is in contact with the fluid, therefore, the air passing through it should extract the maximum amount of heat out of the fluid inside the intercooler.
Then a frame will be built around the IC, and a standard box fan. I will then rivet a sheet metal shroud around both of them, basically forcing all of the air that the fan pushes through itself to permeate the surfaces of the intercooler.
And finally, i finished one of the thru-wall adapters for the back side of my comp case.
Hm. Quite obviously though, if the water is moving, not all of the work the pump does is to overcome friction, it overcomes friction (turns into heat) and then the rest of that energy is converted into kinetic energy. The amount of kinetic energy can't be negligible compared to the amount of heat, can it?
I do understand the idea of using it as an upper-bound on heat dump, that makes sense. And honestly, I think it's kind of negligible anyhow, since 10-20W isn't a particularly significant addition of heat to a loop compared to a 250-500W GPU or 100W CPU. I'm just curious.
Also, sorry for off-topic, this is my last post regarding this, I just felt the need to ask since I've never understood the aforementioned claim.
That's definitely a new take on automotive parts, I'm eager to see it work!
The pump wages a continual battle against friction, it isn't something it can defeat and then go on it merry way. Friction is more like trench warfare.
Okay so my plan is to take an A/A intercooler and modify it to accept fluid. Effectively, I'm going to cap the ends and modify the ends to accept the pipe fittings that I'm using everywhere else on this loop. Then it is going to be mounted as shown so that the fluid flows vertically upwards through the intercooler. This way, the fluid has the slowest velocity, and it also ensures that every bit of surface area possible is in contact with the fluid, therefore, the air passing through it should extract the maximum amount of heat out of the fluid inside the intercooler.
The velocity won't be any slower if the fluid is moving up, it's a closed system. Thus, the velocity doesn't depend on gravitational effects. Water will be moving at a constant velocity proportional to the cross-sectional area it is flowing through. Similarly, the "slower-flow, higher heat extracted" idea is also not true. You can think about it as while the water in the intercooler is cooling off, the water that is not in it is warming up (or staying constant, if it's in the tubes). Higher flow will always be a better option.
I believe we typically aim for 1-1.5GPM. Anything above tends to reach a point of diminishing returns.
The velocity won't be any slower if the fluid is moving up, it's a closed system. Thus, the velocity doesn't depend on gravitational effects. Water will be moving at a constant velocity proportional to the cross-sectional area it is flowing through. Similarly, the "slower-flow, higher heat extracted" idea is also not true. You can think about it as while the water in the intercooler is cooling off, the water that is not in it is warming up (or staying constant, if it's in the tubes). Higher flow will always be a better option.
FYI I'm also looking into pumps that are going to push 20-30 gpm of water, I'm not totally sure what I'm going to get with my ethanol-glycerine soln yet. What do you mean by diminishing returns? like the fluid just gets hotter?
The total fluid flowing will be the same, however, the velocity of the fluid in each individual pipe will be lower as the cross sectional area of the itnercooler is larger than the cross sectional area of the tubing that I am using. When it enters the IC, it will effectively slow down as CS/A increases, then speed back up when it decreases. So each particle of fluid will spend more time when it is being cooled, and less time while in transit. I can sketch this out later, I'm doing hw now though.
Your gonna need a BIG pump with lots of pressure for that GPM. Might damage a common WC radiator. A car radiator can handle it. Be very very careful!
I see what you mean, the GPM inside the block will be less than the thinner area of the hose. Somewhat of a help. Not a lot.
Water holds heat very well. The difference of the flow rate in the block will be pretty low, and the water is still a linear flow in your block, not much inpingment going on, so GPM matters very very little.
No matter what the GPM in the block is, your still moving heat at xx GPM through the full system, and GPM matters little.
Lastly, we are dealing with a closed loop. Lets set the flow rate at 2 GPM. For easy demonstration purposes this will cause a water molecule to make a loop every 5 seconds, and stay in the rad for 1 second. So, every minute the molecule will be in the rad for 12 seconds.
Lets reduce the flow to 1 GPM. Every 10 seconds. 2 seconds. The molecule will still be in the rad for 12 seconds. Reducing flow rate does not keep the water in the rad for any longer...........................
Or increasing to some crazy 25 GPM.........................
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
