A new DT guide, improments and suggestion needed.

[I.M.O.G.]

Inserted a code snippet using noparse tags - otherwise no one can copy from the contents of your quote.

 

[QuietIce]

Details, details, details! All these nit-picky little details!


Thanks! I hadn't thought about that ...

 

[boucher91]

very nice ...
if i can understant that everyone else can....
eggzelent job Conumdrum

 

[thorilan]

to illistrate using an example i would try something like this
Question: why does faster moving water remove more heat if it spends less time in the rad

( yes its a trick question that noobies ask but its a common one that when you can properly answer it you then understand the principles otherwise there is 100% chance that they dont understand the basics)
i have my method of explaining but i want to see some other peoples and then add it in the middle of the post to facilitate learning

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Short answer:

If you are sweating and you point a fan at your face, is it going to cool you down faster on high or on low? On high.

Long answer:

With increased flowrate, there is increased interaction between the water's surface area and that of the heat exchange surfaces (waterblock and rad). End result: water block temperature is closer to temperature of water in the loop, and water in the loop is closer to the temperature of the radiator. The closer in temperature your water block is to the temperature of your radiator, the more efficient your loop is performing at getting heat from the source (cpu) to the exhaust (room air)... Which means your CPU is closer in temperature to that of your room air. This is a good thing.

There is always water passing over the waterblock and rad, so it doesn't need to slow down to exchange heat - every little molecule is constantly absorbing, carrying, and exchanging heat and its the summation of all the tiny interactions which are important. Faster is better to get more tiny interactions, and more heat exchange.

 

[thorilan]

while i understand your meaning i still think its not visual enough.
i do a demonstration with a stove 2 pans a bucket of ice water and a hose going from the tap into a pan.

 

[Conumdrum]

Faster water over a CPU block pins increases the interaction of water molecules (inpingment/turbulence?) For example, the molecules are at 3 heat energy level when they enter the CPU block. If they have the opportunity to touch a part in the block at 7 heat, they gather 3 heat, now they are at 6 heat.

If the flow rate is slow and lazy, less molecules have this opportunity, so maybe a gain of 1-2 heat.

But, it's a diminishing return as flow rate increases, it's not linear.

And to thorilan's question.

It's because the CPU block has removed more heat than before. Thus the water is warmer, and more is dissipated to the air because the water is warmer than before, more heat dissipation to the air. As long as the radiator/fans is above heat saturation levels.

This is where a better CPU block might not help, like going from a Storm to a HK 3.0 if the raddage is poor.

THE CPU TEMPS DROP

Do I get a cookie?

This hlps with flow rates:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6332602&postcount=4

 

[I.M.O.G.]

while i understand your meaning i still think its not visual enough.
i do a demonstration with a stove 2 pans a bucket of ice water and a hose going from the tap into a pan.

Uh what?

That isn't real useful unless you are doing a video demonstration.

But I'd agree my answer isn't the clearest or simplest.

 

[Conumdrum]

No cookie for you IMOG. But you don't need a cookie, your GOD here. And I mean that in a good way.

 

[Conumdrum]

while i understand your meaning i still think its not visual enough.
i do a demonstration with a stove 2 pans a bucket of ice water and a hose going from the tap into a pan.

Boy thats visual, LOL. Thanks thorilan.

 

[QuietIce]

Faster water over a CPU block pins increases the interaction of water molecules (impingement/turbulence?) For example, ...

Impingement/turbulence - that's it in a nutshell.

One simple way to conceptualize it is to think about a sand-blaster removing paint from a metal or concrete surface. The sand is the water molecules and the paint is the heat in the water block. Of course, in the case of water-cooling the paint keeps coming back. Still, it's a common, graphic example of impingement as it's meant in water-cooling ...

 

[Conumdrum]

Impingement/turbulence - that's it in a nutshell.

One simple way to conceptualize it is to think about a sand-blaster removing paint from a metal or concrete surface. The sand is the water molecules and the paint is the heat in the water block. Of course, in the case of water-cooling the paint keeps coming back. Still, it's a common, graphic example of impingement as it's meant in water-cooling ...

I dig your example with sandblasting, very perfect. And "The paint keeps coming back" is like a horror movie or something like that, made me chuckle.

Sometimes I think we are on the same wavelength QuietIce, except my ice makes noise in my glass.

 

[Conumdrum]

We close to stickying this? Last comments?
IMOG and Hokie etc?

 

[thorilan]

actually what i would want noobies to get from the particular question was that water spends the same time in the rad no matter how fast it is going , in a closed loop . you wont believe how few people actually understand this . we take for granted they get this after reading some stickies. thats why i actually have done a demo of what i described above ( yes you hit that one on the nose , but i really dont have time to do it myself)

i think diagrams with simple addition subtraction multiplication and division on time speed distance and how iit applies to time in the block and radiator would be awesome . know anyone that can make visual aids with ms paint?

 

[Conumdrum]

Aha, you mean this I think thorilian.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6332602&postcount=4

 

[QuietIce]

I dig your example with sandblasting, very perfect. And "The paint keeps coming back" is like a horror movie or something like that, made me chuckle.

Sometimes I think we are on the same wavelength QuietIce, except my ice makes noise in my glass.

If someone builds a loop wrong it IS a horror show!


LOL! Mine does too - but sometimes I wish it didn't ...

 

[thorilan]

Aha, you mean this I think thorilian.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6332602&postcount=4

its not showing any pics with that post when i click it. after work ill try it again. maybe its my settings

 

[I.M.O.G.]

We close to stickying this? Last comments?
IMOG and Hokie etc?

Believe it's being prepped for the blog, and this thread will be rolled into the article discussion. Needs a lot of work yet on language and grammar so its the quality we're looking for.

Other than that, not sure it's something we want to publish yet... do you have any imagery, visual aids, or anything else to strengthen the points you are making? Relevant pictures spice things up a bit also.

 

[Conumdrum]

Naa, just for the sticky, not enough for the front page. Can't really image anything except a few charts with Skinnees permission unless someone has some ideas.

 

[Boulard83]

I vote sticky !