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Boards compaired NCCH-DL / PC-DL

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diehrd

Senior SMP Gawd
Joined
Jan 15, 2001
Location
NY
I have both boards.A pair of MO stepping 2.4 chips and have used exactly the same hardware on both boards.

Here is what I found.

NCCH-DL very poor overclocker lacking any mods and any real instructions to actually do any except the U wire in socket.I believe this lack of mods keeps the board from running a good over clock.

I could NEVER post at 230 FSB, Matter of fact 220 was impossible as well no matter the multiplier. Additionally it is my contention this board does NOT lock either the PCI or AGP and i Will believe this no matter what any one says,I have had a heck of a time with it and its overclocking features.Such a bad time that after a week at a good clock I found my self unstable and lowering the clock until I had to settle for 3.2 for 24/7 stability. (2.4 MO chips)

Now 3.2 on a pair of water cooled MO 2.4 chips is a poor overclock.Very poor,So because of this i was left looking for a cause.Was it PSU ? Was it Ram ? My Scsi Controller ? So I changed all of that and ended up exactly where I started out at 3.2.This was a big bummer..SO I decided after days and weeks of messing with it that the Board was most likely limiting my overclock AND that there was an outside chance I had a set of POOR 2.4 MO chips.

PC-DL

Well chips or board ? I decided to start with board as the board can be found for $150.00 where the chips are $300 a set.

I took the board to a lan last week where {PMS}Fishy offered to MOD the PC-DL so i could have Ram Adjustment up to 3.3 and guarantee a 1.6vCore with anther mod as well as an AGP vmod.

Well the results are in..With $5.00 worth of mods this board smokes the NCCH so badly it is shamefull.The fact i can run at 15x230 and clock gen it up to 240 and bench it was simply shocking.And that I can run many different combinations of FSB and Multiplier so far above the NCCH was just totally gratifying.

The mods of course help..BUT consider i could not run 17x200 18x200 or any thing stable over 16x200 clearly shows this boards issue (NCCH) with I believe either THE PCI lock or its ability to regulate voltages.

And considering there is a Bios for the PC-Dl that allows for 64bit chips and that it is a lot cheaper a better overclocker and totally mod able makes it the better board hands down . OH and add to that your ability to run monitoring software like MBM5 and you have all any one could need from an AGP based Xeon board..................... Oh ya 17x216 seams its sweet spot at the moment :)
 
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I've been really thinking of swapping out my NCCH for a PC-DL because this always seemed to be what I was reading. Good comparison on the same hardware proves what I have assumed: PC-DL > NCCH-DL. Now if I can get a cheap board and find someone to mod it for me.
 
To add and reinforce the point...


I have found and completely agree with diehrd about the PC-DL being 150% better than the NCCH-DL (as long as you don't plan on running nocona's) in regards to overclocking.

A summary of my exploits: I first bought the NCCH-DL and 1.6LV xeon chips. Was VERY dissatisfied about not-being able to run a stable 200fsb no matter what multiplier. Thinking it was my C1 stepping chips, I then bought a pair of D1 stepping 2.4LV xeons. These proved to be the same hassle, and I was only able to obtain around 175-180 fsb stable (Not even the 200 fsb the board is designed for!!!). I had also tried lower mem dividers and different PSU's to rule that out.

Thoroughly disgusted, I bought 2 PC-DL boards and instantly vmodded one. Stuck in the 2.4LV chips and kept all the other components the same (except for the coolers which are actually worse than the ones I had on the NCCH) and the chips were running beautifully at 248 fsb. After a few days folding I think I had one or two early unit ends, and so I have backed down to 245 fsb where it has been running stable for over a week, any benches, Prime95, FAH, everything completely stable. It can bench in some programs up to 260 or so! (Screenies at request).

So it is obvious that with just a vmod for the memory you can run a much higher overclock on the PC-DL (usually). I am thinking about the vdroop mod and the VIO mod for the nbridge to see if I can get higher. I may also try the 2nd PC-DL I bought to see if it will go any higher than this one.

The one point I will reserve judgement on is the PCI lock issue that diehrd thinks is the culprit. I believe 2 others have had similar problems to mine (over at 2cpu) with this board not doing the rated 200 fsb, and have RMA'd to get a fixed board. I believe it is some problem with the actual hardware not allowing mine to run 200fsb stable. Above that I have little experience so I cannot comment on whether the PCI/AGP lock seems to be working in that range.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Questions: has anyone done the vdroop/vcore mod (for more vcore and more stability) and has the overclock been better? What is the max recommended vcore to throw at these chips without frying them (1.3 volt default LV xeons)?
 
Pretty sure the ncch-dl has the same limitation as the pc-dl. 1.60v is the absolute max. And even then it wont give past 1.56v when I set the VID pns to 1.6. Additional cooling on the VRMs might help. 1.60v is what the majority of people run at. The U wire mod is easy to do. And I also reinforce the praise of the pc-dl. vmod is very easy. no soldering etc. Just a pomona grabber and splicing a fan mobo header plug with a 10k pot.

my 1.6lv d0s run at 3.15ghz 225mhz fsb. Hard to complain when I spent 120$ for both :D

PC-DL is much easier to find also. If you are an OCer there is no reason to buy a NCCH-DL. Course if you already have one you could probably ebay it for more than you'd find a PC-DL.
 
jamesavery22 said:
Pretty sure the ncch-dl has the same limitation as the pc-dl. 1.60v is the absolute max. And even then it wont give past 1.56v when I set the VID pns to 1.6. Additional cooling on the VRMs might help. 1.60v is what the majority of people run at. The U wire mod is easy to do. And I also reinforce the praise of the pc-dl. vmod is very easy. no soldering etc. Just a pomona grabber and splicing a fan mobo header plug with a 10k pot.

my 1.6lv d0s run at 3.15ghz 225mhz fsb. Hard to complain when I spent 120$ for both :D

I have Vcore set to the max of 1.65 and at load i dont drop below 1.59
which i know has helped allow for a better overclock.

I am stable after several hours of prime today at 3676.And I may have more as I notice my PSU is dropping to 11.73 at load from 11.98 at idle..Need to check it with a digi volt meter to be sure but if I am dropping like tha I am thinking i may hit the Magic 3.7 with the new OCZ 520 ,which is my goal for this rig..
 
diehrd said:
I have Vcore set to the max of 1.65 and at load i dont drop below 1.59
which i know has helped allow for a better overclock.

I am stable after several hours of prime today at 3676.And I may have more as I notice my PSU is dropping to 11.73 at load from 11.98 at idle..Need to check it with a digi volt meter to be sure but if I am dropping like tha I am thinking i may hit the Magic 3.7 with the new OCZ 520 ,which is my goal for this rig..


Ahhh.... I forgot that on the PC-DL you can U-wire for higher than 1.6 and still have it run because of the droop. Mine consistently runs at 1.53-1.54 vcore under load.


anyway the vcore mod I was talking about was this one
http://www.datamine.tk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28&PN=1
as I was under the impression this would get around the max 1.6V limit (But I could be wrong - have to re-read it).
 
Thats it but the board has over voltage protection and it kicks in after 1.65..And with the pot you are able to increase the Vcore to the point just before voltage protection kicks in...
 
UPDATE..Priime stable at 17x216 .. I am simply amazed at the PC-DL and the 2.4 MO chips..
 
I also reinforce the praise of the pc-dl. vmod is very easy. no soldering etc. Just a pomona grabber and splicing a fan mobo header plug with a 10k pot.

So, where do you find the grabber and the 10k pot? The local Radio Shack said they don't carry stuff like that anymore... :shrug:
 
Tyrinon said:
So, where do you find the grabber and the 10k pot? The local Radio Shack said they don't carry stuff like that anymore... :shrug:
I got mine here:
http://www.elexp.com/clp_5243.htm

You must get the exact one shown above as it is made for the IC used on the Asus PC-DL. They also sell potentiometers:
http://www.elexp.com/cmp_sts.htm
http://www.elexp.com/cmp_csh.htm

And, to make the $20 minimum, get a DMM since you'll need one:
http://www.elexp.com/tst_s830.htm
http://www.elexp.com/tst_113.htm

I have the second one listed above, Model DM113 Pocket Digital Multimeter with Bargraph, and it works great.
 
i understand some people have had trouble with the ncch-dl at 200mhz+ fsb...(and i empathize)....

but, i must stand up for the ncch-dl...i have done some overnight testing using 4x prime95 (each program on it's own cpu, two logical, two hyperthreading cpus)...

at 17x206 (3.5ghz, haven't tried overnight prime higher yet) it was 100% stable, no reboots and no errors for 9 hours...

i have tried 16x219, also 3.5ghz, with cas 2,3,3,6 timings (instead of cas 2,2,2,6)----this failed 4x prime95 after 30 minutes, but i have yet to determine why...

here are my full system specs:

my setup as prime95 passed:

rev. 1.2 NCCH-DL (original bios 1001)
two coolermaster heatpipes with 80mm L1A panaflos screwed on
two, 2.4ghz M0 SL73L stepping Xeons
1.6v, d2-d3 pin socket mods with 1, 9mm strand of monster cable
speaker wire
bios reports 1.56-1.58 vcore for both cpus
1.7v chipset voltage (bios reports 1.68v)
two 512mb Patriot XBLs pc3200 cas 2,2,2,5 (set to 2,2,2,6 in bios)
2.8v vdimm (mem voltage) (bios reports 2.73-2.74v)
Fortron/Sparkle FSP550-60PLG psu (36A on one 12v rail)
74gb raptor boot drive on intel SATA port
two, ibm 7k250 on Promise raid-0
ibm 7k250 on IDE
two, 16x NEC 3500 dvd burners
powercolor 9700pro
soundblaster live 5.1
Winfast PVR2000 TV tuner

cpu temps hover around 46-48C for both cpus when doing 4x prime95....and the "mobo-system" temp hovers around 36-40C under this load...

bios/software read voltages:

3.28-3.29
4.94-4.96
11.91-11.93

under full load and no load they fluctuate less than 1%

voltages read with a multimeter:

3.34-3.36
5.01-5.05
11.99-12.06

whew, after reading some of these tough times for the ncch-dl, and diehard's experiences with the PC-DL overclocking his same M0 chips much higher and much more stable, i was beginning to look into getting either the dh800 or the pc-dl as a replacement for my ncch-dl....

of course the problems are that neither the pc-dl nor the dh800 have as many raid options that i need---and the dh800 is $359 new or $259 refurbished from newegg---and the pc-dl will require vdimm mods and extra cooling on the vrms...

now that i know my ncch-dl is overnight 4x prime95 stable, i'm not changing boards for more fsb or more overclock...
 
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Great to see the results,,And for VRM cooling all i had to do to keep it under controll is apply Artic cilver,And put a fan on it :)

17x216 Is where my MO chips run at i can run at 245x15 as well but have issues to work out with the person who devised the way to run such a high FSB..If I can get it sorted out I am going to be simply amazed..
 
Its seems the pc-dl is the better option, but the mods are required... maybe someday in the future I will end up with a modded PC-DL that will replace my NCCH, but for now the NCCH stays and will remain a dual 2.8 xeon rig. I only wonder what they could do on a properly modded PC-DL. Maybe once I move to college because its hard enough to explain to the parents why I upgraded this or that and tensions have been rising, so it's best for me to not be buying anymore computer stuff here for awhile. But then again, if I wait untill college, I will end up broke and not have money to upgrade: I'm screwed both ways!
 
{PMS}fishy said:
The PC-DL will go to atleast 1.65v on the CPUs. I have taken 2 MBs there.

1.65v is the limit because of the overvolt protection, correct? Reading the Vcore and Vdroop mod over at datamine, I saw that the overvolt protection can be removed by disonnecting the 7th leg of the ic from the mobo. With the overvolt protection overrided, I wonder how high the board could actually go. Has anyone every actually done this successfully?
And because of the very fine pitch of the chip I have not succeeded in doing The Ultimate Vcore mod which involves lifting of pin-7 of ADP3180 even after to tries I have done, I chickened out (I might try it one more time in the coming days)

The Ultimate Vcore Mod would remove the +10% limit integrated into the ADP3180 over VID pin settings. And because it removes a layer of protection to the design, it would need to be dealt with great care and respect because you could apply so much voltage on the processor, you could fry them or in the long run fry your "VRMs"
Quote taken from james_bzx8's Mods for VCORE and VDROOP
http://www.datamine.tk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28&PN=1
 
10% of the max pinned vcore is the max you can take the MB with out an OVP mod.

NWs like to die at anything over 1.65v so I never bother to try higher.
 
FCT Gemini

I'm jUSt benchmarking mine NCCH-DL with the new machine run FCT coolers setup(Gemini:~)... it seems to ROCK to me...

16x233 and apparently absolutely error free so far... temp is running 38-40C on the Koolance readout at 100%... 32C at idle...

I found the tricks to getting this board to top out here on OverClockers... as far as the bios settings... I was running error free at 16x25 with the old "hand made" FCTs... until the weather warmed up... then I had to drop back... running SETI Boinc all the time(made top 20 in "Hosts Stats":~)...

But today I installed the worst(2nd 2nds:~) of the machine run FCT blocks on Gemini... so the worst machine made blocks clearly outperform the best of the hand made jobs... WOW!!!

Already whipped out a 7332 on the PCmark04... is that good?... :p

I believe that I've found out the secret to this mobo(the NCCH-DL Rocks:~)... I have no U-wire mods... nor any other mods except my FCT Cooling set up... heh... which I modified a little bit... the little mod seems to open this baby up...

Do ya wanna know what it is? :eh?:
 
I guess 233 on 200 MHZ chips could be different than on 100/133 CPUs.

It just seems to me that the PC-DL is a much faster MB than the NCCH-DL.
 
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