FBI wants a backdoor for all IOS devices ???

[knoober]

Which would be what the FBI is after.

Which means that McAfee is full of bologna then right? This work could not be done by a generic software engineer and 1 other, that there would indeed need to be help from Apple ? Just making sure I'm putting these pieces together properly

 

[Alaric]

I think it means dismantling one phone requires Apple's assistance , but forcing them to give the FBI the "key" would allow them a much broader approach to violating the rights of Americans , potentially without judicial , and public oversight. If they get Apple's disassembler language they can use it at will , without bothering to get a messy , slow , warrant. A while back , TrueCrypt was used to lock a laptop the DOJ wanted access to , and asked the court to demand the suspect give up her password. The courts eventually decided (and rightly so , IMO) that possession of the laptop was an evidence issue , rightly obtained through warrant , but the password was a 5th Amendment issue , and therefore the court could not compel the accused to reveal it. The DOJ never got in to the laptop. The US government couldn't crack the encryption , claiming they could, but it may take a few thousand years.

Apple can do it at the hardware level , because it's their encryption. For the FBI to do it would require them to have the necessary software-which would then give them the keys to the kingdom.. Some have disagreed with me , but I don't believe the government has an inherent right to be able to snoop in to anybody's business they get a whim to. If they have the ability they will use , therefore misuse , it. Anybody who thinks our government can be trusted , take a look at our current election cycle. The power structure of a candidate's own party is trying to subvert , and derail , his candidacy. This , in obvious opposition to the will of the electorate. They don't want anyone who isn't in their network near the real reins of power. They don't care what the people want , it's all about power. The Apple case is about that same government wanting more power. How much faith in their "good intentions" can we really have?

 

[wingman99]

Yes they would need a Apple Firmware engineer also to take the iPhone apart, because how can you run disassembler software on a locked iPhone unless there is a backdoor that we don't know about.

 

[knoober]

because how can you run disassembler software on a locked iPhone unless there is a backdoor that we don't know about.

That's the part that is above my paygrade

He seems to be saying that the dissaembler would allow you to read the unlock code and then use it to unlock the hardware. From the interview, I gather that encryptoion wouldnt be a hurdle for the disassembler. It is my understanding that any even when run through a disassembler there wouldnt be any human readable information because of the encryption.

If what I have said above is close to true, then this interview is surely a publicity stunt because it doesnt seem to jive with the basic facts of encryption.

 

[wingman99]

That interview was stupid how can you compare a software or hardware engineer to a hacker they only hack at things they make or create nothing.

 

[knoober]

That interview was stupid how can you compare a software or hardware engineer to a hacker they only hack at things they make or create nothing.

That is kind of where I am going. If breaking into the iPhone is exactly as simple as was said (keep in mind that his solution needs 2x engineers) then that was a stupid interview. McAfee is a fairly respectable company from what I have read, but if the CEO can get on the television and make blatantly false claims, then I dont know that the respect is deserved.

Think about it. This guy has so little respect for the collective intelligence of the audience that he thinks he can just make up a solution and be accepted. How likely is that to be the first time? Perhaps McAfee products are exploiting the public in the same way?

To get back on topic though: I havent read anything new since the New York magistrate effectively ruled against the All Writs Act working in these types of situations. To my knowledge that will only provide a precedent for Apple's defense to use in a trial but is still a major step.

 

[Kenrou]

Why the FBI's Order to Apple is so technically clever

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/fb...ckdoor-technical-explainer?trk_source=popular

Brilliant - "(And we know from documents leaked by Edward Snowden that the CIA has been working on ways to hack the iPhone without Apple’s help for years.)"

 

[knoober]

That was something I was going to bring up... why doesnt the FBI just develop their own style of decryption for use whenever they need. Perhaps they would need a warrant to use it or some such thing right?

The reason that they dont is because it would be illegal and Apple would sue them. Funny isnt it. I dont know how folks feld during the Cuban Missle Crisis, but if it was anything like this.... boy oh boy

 

[Kenrou]

Makes me want to watch the X-Files series all over again to learn how the US gov works

 

[ShrimpBrime]

People that hide something have a good reason. Obviously illegal ones.

If FBI agents want my information or anything on my little POS iPhone, please by all means take it. I'd rather have an android any ways!

What could be soo private? Perhaps you watch kiddie pron? Maybe smoke a little weedz and perhaps a small growing station in your basement? Put a hit out on the ex?

A real American with good family values has nothing to hide.

F'em and give up the goods. your privacy is invaded daily by better technology than a simple cell phone lol.

 

[Kenrou]

Isn't it the Americans that keep raving about "constitutional rights" and "right to privacy" ? If you got nothing to hide why on earth would you be subjected to random checks ? sounds more and more like a fascist regime to me, every time a law is passed they lose more of their rights.

Correct me if i'm wrong, one of the reasons the Jews got rounded up so fast in WW2 was that one of the European governments (honestly don't remember which one) had started gathering info on them a few years before, so the Germans had all they needed when it started. Admittedly in this day and age were all screwed in this particular scenario

 

[knoober]

People that hide something have a good reason. Obviously illegal ones.

If FBI agents want my information or anything on my little POS iPhone, please by all means take it. I'd rather have an android any ways!

What could be soo private? Perhaps you watch kiddie pron? Maybe smoke a little weedz and perhaps a small growing station in your basement? Put a hit out on the ex?

A real American with good family values has nothing to hide.

F'em and give up the goods. your privacy is invaded daily by better technology than a simple cell phone lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation

 

[Alaric]

People that hide something have a good reason. Obviously illegal ones.

If FBI agents want my information or anything on my little POS iPhone, please by all means take it. I'd rather have an android any ways!

What could be soo private? Perhaps you watch kiddie pron? Maybe smoke a little weedz and perhaps a small growing station in your basement? Put a hit out on the ex?

A real American with good family values has nothing to hide.

F'em and give up the goods. your privacy is invaded daily by better technology than a simple cell phone lol.

All due respect , but I think you're missing the point. I don't have to "have something to hide". I'm an American. Unless probable cause to believe I've committed a criminal act is shown , the answer is NO. I don't need a reason. The government needs a good reason to bother me , and they have to convince what should be a neutral third party (judge) their reason is valid. Then I get to tell them I don't have to assist in their efforts to prove it. It's not privacy , it's the presumption of innocence and the right to be secure in my person and property. Inalienable rights is the term , I believe.

This country was founded on the presumption that government is inherently untrustworthy , and is rightfully the servant of the people. The government now thinks they are a ruling class. They need to be disabused of that notion. Not rulers , not leaders , servants of the public good.

 

[Kenrou]

“Government of the people, by the people, for the people” - Bible said it 1st, Abraham Lincoln copied 150 odd years ago, i'm not american and an atheist and even i know that The government is there to help the people in their day to day lives, not lead them per se, for that you can go back to monarchy ?

 

[dyckah]

All due respect , but I think you're missing the point. I don't have to "have something to hide". I'm an American. Unless probable cause to believe I've committed a criminal act is shown , the answer is NO. I don't need a reason. The government needs a good reason to bother me , and they have to convince what should be a neutral third party (judge) their reason is valid. Then I get to tell them I don't have to assist in their efforts to prove it. It's not privacy , it's the presumption of innocence and the right to be secure in my person and property. Inalienable rights is the term , I believe.

This country was founded on the presumption that government is inherently untrustworthy , and is rightfully the servant of the people. The government now thinks they are a ruling class. They need to be disabused of that notion. Not rulers , not leaders , servants of the public good.

this.
so many times this.
we all have a right to privacy, the government should keep their noses out of where it doesn't belong.
shrimp, do you also disagree with the 5th amendment? should people be forced to talk about something that proves them to be guilty?
the burden of guilt is on the government to prove, and they better be able to do it without infringing on anyones rights.

 

[petteyg359]

People that hide something have a good reason. Obviously illegal ones.

If FBI agents want my information or anything on my little POS iPhone, please by all means take it. I'd rather have an android any ways!

What could be soo private? Perhaps you watch kiddie pron? Maybe smoke a little weedz and perhaps a small growing station in your basement? Put a hit out on the ex?

A real American with good family values has nothing to hide.

F'em and give up the goods. your privacy is invaded daily by better technology than a simple cell phone lol.

Well, since you've got nothing to hide, kindly provide us with your checking account and routing numbers, your home address and phone number, and your social security number. Don't worry, it won't be abused by anybody on the internet who finds this publicly readable thread.

If you don't post it, we'll know you're doing something illegal.

Perhaps you watch kiddie pron? Maybe smoke a little weedz and perhaps a small growing station in your basement? Put a hit out on the ex?

If ANYONE has a back door, EVERYONE has a back door. EVERYONE includes nefarious actors, and so-called LEOs (what law?) who have no reasonable cause, let alone a warrant.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

LOL. Nothing happened.

 

[Kenrou]

At the risk of sounding corny, definition of a hero is "someone that gets people killed" and i have seen my fair share in my 5y special forces abroad. All that bravado counts for nothing is one of the nut jobs that prowls these discussion threads takes you up on your offer and shows up when you're sleeping or blindsides you or goes for your family instead just because he can think before you post details of your life on a public thread m8

Back to the thread - http://www.fudzilla.com/news/40144-highest-court-tells-apple-to-face-facts

 

[Alaric]

Is fudzilla like the Onion? I tried reading that column three times and all I got from it was a headache.

Anyway , nobody (here) is questioning the right to defend oneself from crooks. I'm a fan of the Second Amendment , which when written , had in mind an overreaching government taking your property without due process and compelling you to give testimony against yourself among other things. The right to bear arms was added to keep soldiers out of your house. The soldiers now wear cheap suits and dark glasses and want to get in your data , but they are no less a threat to a free society. Spouting some vague need to save me from two dead terrorists isn't believable to me. It's how they get the door open , a first requirement for getting the soldiers in your house.

 

[knoober]

Spouting some vague need to save me from two dead terrorists isn't believable to me. It's how they get the door open

+1

I cant believe people are more afraid of "terrorists" than ^^^ What's a little erosion of the Consitution compared to terrorism right?