L3 Cache Important for Gaming?

[BigAndrew]

Im lookin to build a budget gaming desktop
So the first part im lookin at on newegg is a duel core cpu

im trying to decide on 2 different cpu's

the first one is AMD Athlon II X2 260 Regor 3.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX260OCGMBOX
$67.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103873

2nd is AMD Phenom II X2 560 Black Edition Callisto 3.3GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor HDZ560WFGMBOX
$99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103887

Im leaning towards the $67.99 since im going for a budget build but if the other one or any other cpu someone can suggest under $100 is much better then ill go for that one

The main difference im looking at between the 2 is the cheaper cpu doesnt have L3 cache but has better L2 which is @ 2 x 1MB when the more expensive one has only 2 x 512KB L2 but has 6MB of shared L3

So heres my main question, Is L3 cache so important for gaming that i should spend the extra $32 to get the cpu with L3 cache even tho it has less L2 cache?
Im thinking the extra $32 would be better spent towards a better Graphics card
Thank You in advance for your guy's help/advice

 

[I.M.O.G.]

A better 2nd choice would probably be this one. Extra core, extra 512 L2, and fully unlocked multi:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103699

That would be about $20 more expensive than the cheaper CPU, but less expensive than the 2nd dual care you were considering, and it may unlock to 4 cores with a fitting motherboard. With a cheap build, the unlocked multi may give you more overclocking headroom if your board isn't that great.

This article suggests these, and some other things which can give you an idea of roughly what to expect for your budget:
http://www.overclockers.com/amd-intel-buyers-guide-102010/

 

[BigAndrew]

A better 2nd choice would probably be this one. Extra core, extra 512 L2, and fully unlocked multi:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103699

That would be about $20 more expensive than the cheaper CPU, but less expensive than the 2nd dual care you were considering, and it may unlock to 4 cores with a fitting motherboard. With a cheap build, the unlocked multi may give you more overclocking headroom if your board isn't that great.

This article suggests these, and some other things which can give you an idea of roughly what to expect for your budget:
http://www.overclockers.com/amd-int...at link, Just maybe tweek it a bit :clap: lol

 

[Benny Boy]

here's a phenom II x4 @ 3.0 for $96,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644
so both the x3 and x4 would be over 100 by the time you bought a cooler and paste. I think an Athlon II has more L2 than that x4 and you could get an Athlon II x4 640 for 100. in a box with the sink and paste.

here's one for $79, $11 more than the 260 and would do very well at games.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103886[
It may ulock with the right board but it wouldnt have to. It's oc'able if you chose to do so. and again, has the sink and paste.
IMO:
the diff between the L3 or no L3 for your app. is not going to matter that much.
for gaming, cores are more important that L3 cashe.

Here's a deal i know about. If you want it you might act fast because I was going to tell you about 4gb of OCZ Reaper 1600 ram for $57 shipped but they just took it off sale.

This psu would be overkill, but it's like getting it for $5.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.553637

what's your budget? is it $600?
do you have any parts for it right now?

EDIT: Well, that comdo went up to 170. it was 150 for a couple days, then 140 briefly.

EDIT: Please do not use colors of blue which are hard to read on the site, links cleaned up - IMOG, Forum Admin

 

[QuietIce]

Your right the triple core would be a better 2nd choice except it doest come with a heat sink nor fan

to OCF!


Actually, we seldom think about building a system without an after-market heatsink. Stock heatsinks are not very good for overclocking and, as our name suggests, that's what we all do around here! As you'll see, we included heatsinks in those build suggestions.

But down to the basics. The X3 linked, which has L3 cache, will give you anywhere a from 2 to maybe 50% increase in game performance depending on the game. Most dual threaded games will show only a marginal benefit, if any, from the extra core but the L3 adds some performance. If the game is true multi-threaded and can use more then two cores then performance really shoots up. If I were building a budget game system I'd take a look at the games I'd be playing to see how many cores they use (and check for rumors about the next version of the game, too) and let that guide my CPU choice.

here's a phenom II x4 @ 3.0 for $96,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644

That CPU can't be used with AM3 motherboards/DDR3 RAM.

If the OP can find a good AM2+ board and DDR2 RAM that CPU is an excellent deal ...

 

[Benny Boy]

to OCF! Actually, we seldom think about building a system without an after-market heatsink. Stock heatsinks are not very good for overclocking and, as our name suggests, that's what we all do around here! As you'll see, we included heatsinks in those build suggestions.

Thanks
And I understand that. I wasn't disreguarding the 740. The 450 instead of the 260 is huge and with the extra core, the $ diff. is negligable. The 450's extra core outwieghs the L3 cashe on the 560 for gaming. The 740 is better than the 560. And the 940 has the 4th core making it better in comparisome to the 740 when your thinking cpu's and not platforms. Do we know that the op picked am3? When your on a "budget", and building new, you may want to think about the future when the future gets here. And you may want to limit startup costs and apply the $ elswhere for now, and tweak it afterwards. Like get a better sink after you've afforded the best components you can. The op referred to that. And we don't know what his thought for budget IS. Do you have to oc right away?

That CPU can't be used with AM3 motherboards/DDR3 RAM.

Well, it can if the board supports both. The op only said he was looking at those 2 boxed cpu's so I suggested that 940. Is that ok? It doesn't have a heatsink ! lol

This isn't a contest. So I hope no one takes my replies that way.
It's about input for the op.

 

[QuietIce]

Well, it can if the board supports both. The op only said he was looking at those 2 boxed cpu's so I suggested that 940. Is that ok?

I wasn't trying to make it into a contest, just, as you put it, information for the OP. As I noted above:

If the OP can find a good AM2+ board and DDR2 RAM that CPU (the 940BE) is an excellent deal ...

Also note the time stamps on the posts - I didn't see your post until after I had submitted mine, then I went back and edited in the last part.

- - - - - -

That CPU can't be used with AM3 motherboards/DDR3 RAM.

Well, it can if the board supports both.

That's the point - an AM3 board does NOT support AM2+ CPU's like the 940BE. The only board that supports both are AM2+ boards, as I mentioned in my post.

 

[BigAndrew]

I don't have any parts yet, I'm just trying to do a ton of research first so i don't regret it later

I don't have an exact budget, I'm shooting around $700 but might go higher
I just want to build a computer that can handle any game out there on high settings

It was under my impression that hardly anything out there utilizes the 3rd and 4th core on processors let alone the 2nd one, Also for the price of a quad core you can get a duel core with decent higher clock speeds, I guess this was true a year or 2 ago but not anymore
How many games out there utilize the 3rd and 4th core? I read that Fallout New Vegas doesn't, I cant find an answer for StarCraft2 but i highly doubt it does

 

[Redstone]

Just some food for thought. I wasnt sold on quad core so much but I am glad I got one. Alt tabbing out of games is a breeze. Running multiple programs at the same time rarely slows the system. That 940 looks like a great cpu. You dont have to break the bank on a third party cooler. Just hunt for a sale. I got my cooler for 12 bucks on sale at fry's.
I think all the cores were used when I used to play BFBC2

 

[Tokae]

If I were building a budget rig, and wanted to spend about a 100 bucks, Id go with the Phemon II X4 940 Black Edition for 95 bucks. You would still need to find a cooler and fan for it though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644

3.0 ghz quad core, with some room to OC in the future

Or if you want with a cooler and fan:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103871

Athlon II X4 640 3.0GHz for 100 bucks

Games as old as Call of Duty 4 use however many cores are available...
As it has been pointed out many times before, games are going the multi core route.. Dual core stuff is on its way out. Even for a budget build, I dont think they are worth it.

 

[BigAndrew]

Ok... You guys got me sold on the Phemon II X4 940

Now i just need to pick me out a decent motherboard, This is one thing i don't want to skimp on cause i can always upgrade the other parts much easier later

I'm open for any suggestions DDR3 Ram is a must and USB3 would be nice as well

 

[jmccann]

Ok... You guys got me sold on the Phemon II X4 940

Now i just need to pick me out a decent motherboard, This is one thing i don't want to skimp on cause i can always upgrade the other parts much easier later

I'm open for any suggestions DDR3 Ram is a must and USB3 would be nice as well

940 wont take dd3 just ddr2. there are boards with ddr2 AND dd3 slots but whose really gonna swap around cpu/memory keeping the same board?

my cpu vote - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103699

my mobo vote for a budget that wants usb 3 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131668

 

[Tokae]

940 wont take dd3 just ddr2. there are boards with ddr2 AND dd3 slots but whose really gonna swap around cpu/memory keeping the same board?

my cpu vote - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103699

my mobo vote for a budget that wants usb 3 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131668

Good point regarding the DDR2 issue! If you are not scared of open box stuff, check out this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727

Thats a decent deal!

AM3 socket and DDR3 obv.

 

[BigAndrew]

940 wont take dd3 just ddr2. there are boards with ddr2 AND dd3 slots but whose really gonna swap around cpu/memory keeping the same board?

my cpu vote - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103699

my mobo vote for a budget that wants usb 3 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131668

Oh crap... I didn't realize that the 940 won't take ddr3
Is ddr3 that big of a difference compaired to ddr2? Maybe ill just buy the high end ddr2 sticks to make up for it

Usb3 would be really nice but isnt a must specially if its gonna make my build an extra $50 I dunno maybe it would be cause my 12.1 megapixel camera that records 720p video takes forever... to upload

 

[Benny Boy]

I don't have any parts yet, I'm just trying to do a ton of research first so i don't regret it later

I don't have an exact budget, I'm shooting around $700 but might go higher
I just want to build a computer that can handle any game out there on high settings

It was under my impression that hardly anything out there utilizes the 3rd and 4th core on processors let alone the 2nd one, Also for the price of a quad core you can get a duel core with decent higher clock speeds, I guess this was true a year or 2 ago but not anymore
How many games out there utilize the 3rd and 4th core? I read that Fallout New Vegas doesn't, I cant find an answer for StarCraft2 but i highly doubt it does

For about 700-800 you could go with the am3/ddr3 platform and a PIIx4. LIke the 955. Maybe bigger-depends on what deals you can find. And you'd be set for whatever game.
Perhaps look around somewhere like Newegg for discounts, combos/promos/rebates to get an idea.
A couple options might be:
To use thier shopping cart to put your parts. Let it total it up and can see everything there and tweak it as needed.
Build around the cpu & video card as these would have the single most bearing on your gaming.
From there get the best mobo/psu the gudget can do.
DDR3 1600 seems to be the sweet spot for the price.
Something like the HAF 912 is good for only about 40.


These ^ are just suggestions.

There was a deal for an XFX modular psu and a HD 5830 for $175.
Another deal was Reaper DDR3 1600 4GB for $57 shipped, and another good part about that was it was available on many other parts in combos for further discounts.
This means a great ddr3-mobo/ram and a great vc/psu for about $350. So you cans see what 7-800 can do. Remember that initial costs will be higher till rebates come in.

Having a good idea at Black Friday time of the specific parts for the $, and smart shopping/planning, will net you a nice machine in your price range.

EDIT: sorry bout that QuietIce. i thought all your post reffered to me.
and Redstone, i see i have your avatar, ill change mine.

 

[BigAndrew]

Good point regarding the DDR2 issue! If you are not scared of open box stuff, check out this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727

Thats a decent deal!

AM3 socket and DDR3 obv.

Not sure what u mean about open box stuff but i guess i'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a better cpu like the one you just listed, Later on i'll be glad i did
So your saying this AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz supports DDR3 and USB3?

Let me see what kind of combo deals they have with this cpu, The other one had a nice large midsize tower with 2 200mm fans

This was the deal i was lookin at with the other cpu+case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.557316
Very nice case even tho it doesnt have usb3 but i wouldn't mind having a usb3 cord hanging out the back of the case

 

[Benny Boy]

open box means the item has been returned and checked by the manuf. and is back up for sale at a discounted price because the box has been opened. It also means you may only get the item and not any or all of the accessories. Like if it's a mobo, the driver/soft. disc, cables, manual.

 

[BigAndrew]

open box means the item has been returned and checked by the manuf. and is back up for sale at a discounted price because the box has been opened. It also means you may only get the item and not any or all of the accessories. Like if it's a mobo, the driver/soft. disc, cables, manual.

Oh ok, After u mentioned it I saw the open box Phenom II X4 965 for $125 but its sold out or i would of bought it...

 

[Redstone]

Looks like you could get the Phenom II X3 740 for 88 bucks and unlock the 4th core. It would basically be the same thing as the 940 but AM3. even if you didnt unlock the 4th core it would be a very budget minded cpu

 

[Benny Boy]

Both of these are in the 700-750ish range.
An example build:
This one has usb3. Add $ for a case, after market cooler. Add a card r/w if you wish(cheap). Comes with free $10 card and free 4gb flash drive.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.548074
there's better branded ram, but ocz's not "bad". And it's 1333 but there's not much diff in the 1600 other than oc. Has upgrade path.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.553618
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151176
Another:
No usb3 tho. However there is a usb3 version of this board. It's and excellent mobo. It also has the 890/850 chipsets, overclocks very well(better than the Gig), and has very easy to use oc'ing software. It can automatically do it for you.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.552990
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.553618
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211466
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151176
I think the stock cooler is ok if you dont oc too much and can upgraded later. But it seems you have the budget for it now, which is better.
I'd like to see recommends/comments on this.