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Lapping modded Zalman & CPU - extra 5 degree drop.

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jpinard said:
Is there a reason you used a Silverstone fan instead of a different brand?

i simply wanted a fan that had a high output rate (air movement) and i wanted adequate coverage of the heat sink heat pipes and cooling fin assembly; the silverstone, after testing it against another high output 120mm fan, turned out to be the best.

here's a link to the test i did:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=482365
 
leojharris said:
i simply wanted a fan that had a high output rate (air movement) and i wanted adequate coverage of the heat sink heat pipes and cooling fin assembly; the silverstone, after testing it against another high output 120mm fan, turned out to be the best.

here's a link to the test i did:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=482365

Yep, I read that :) How do you think one of the Scythe or Yate Loons would be instead of the Silverstone? Which model Silverstone did you end up using?
 
jpinard said:
Yep, I read that :) How do you think one of the Scythe or Yate Loons would be instead of the Silverstone? Which model Silverstone did you end up using?

i think the scythes and yate loons would still be a fairly good upgrade from the stock zalman ... though not nearly as effective at high overclocks.

the silverstone is almost twice the CFM of either of the scythe or yate loons ... give or take a few ... and insofar as getting the heat off of the pipes and cooling fins ... it makes a huge difference.

for instance, when i drop the RPM's of the silverstone by 50 to 60%, my temps jump up about 5 or 6 degrees *immediately* ... very dramatic change; this is, of course, while running my cpu about 1.4ghz over it's stock speed. i have the zalman hooked up to a fan controller and i run it 100% ... all the time ... idle temps even jump up from 42ish to around 47 when i cut the fan speed byf 50%.

so to get good clocks, i think you want a really high CFM/RPM fan. i'm looking around to try and find some other even higher CFM/RPM fans, let me know if you know of some.

the silverstone i used is FM121; it'll cost you 15 to 20 bucks depending where you get it ...
 
Well got it all back together. For the Zalman fan mod, once I had it out of the case and looked at it with the Silverstone fan, I knew that to be able to mount the fan without removing the outer casing it would require a longer home made bracket because the stock one would just be too short. So instead of making a new bracket, I mounted the fan bracket backwards on the Zalman and then bent in 90 degrees out. Then the fan bracket would mount under the fan. I cut some notches in the outer casing of the fan so it would sit lower on the bracket and bent the bracket in kind of a S shape so it would clear the MB heat sink mount and the fan would sit lower so it would be close to center with the Zalman heatsink. I then snipped off the end of the fan bracket so it was flush with the front side of the fan and so it would clear the mem stick. Then I expoxied the bracket to the bottom of the fan. I was a little worried about how I was going to be able to get to the screw that mounts the whole thing to the bracket on the MB since the entire front of the heatsink is now blocked by the fan, but realized that a long thin philips head screw driver could easy fit in between the Zalman fins to be able to reach the front mount screw.

As far as lapping all 11 items (Water GPU block, 8 BGA ram sinks, CPU & Zalman), the CPU was bar far the most work and most stressful. I had the little base cap that came with the CPU and tried to tape it to the small edges of the top of the CPU so only the top of the CPU was exposed to the sand paper. Even after a thorough cleaning, I had a hell of a time keeping the tape stuck. The tape kept popping loose on the edges and then would allow dust under them and get tape glue on the sand paper. The CPU was also very concave. I lapped it till it was all down to copper then polished it to a mirror shine. Of all 11 items to lap, the CPU is the only one that I did not lap with water on the paper. The Zalman heastink was probably the easiest of all to lap out of the 11. It had the best factory finish of them all. The Swiftech BGA sinks were pretty good, but it took some time to get the thermal tape off of them before I could lap them.

In mounting the Thermaltake Tide's GPU water block, I knew it would require some mods to the Swiftech BGA sinks because 3 mem chips sit directly above the GPU and the water lines would interfere. I had to snip off a few of the Swiftech sinks pins so that the water lines would clear them. I then used Artic Silver thermal adhesive and glued the 8 sinks to the ATI X1900XT's mem chips. The way the Thermaltake cooler unit mounts in the motherboard does not work right with the Asus P5B Deluxe because it requires two PCI slots to sit in. I had to break off one of the mounts so it would sit correctly in the MB.

After about 9 straight hours of work I then put in a new Silverstone ST60F PSU in my case and put it all back together. I keep one side of the case open for cooling so I also mounted another 120mm fan to the case that blows down over the Vid card and Thermaltake cooler.

I have not done any tests yet, but with the E6600 clocked at 3.2Ghz (that was what I was using before the mod) the CPU is down from 50 C to 43 C at idle. This is with the CPU fan at full speed. I am not sure what voltages I have it set at in BIOS, so I am sure I could get it cooler with this CPU speed.

The Thermaltake Tide GPU cooler is what I am most impressed with so far. Using the ATI Overdrive control panel, it showed the GPU at 34 C at idle. That is down from 50 C before the mod. I ran the ATI overdrive automated clock utility and it pushed the OC from 625 to the programs limit of 689. Before the mod, it would crap out and revert to 655. The GPU never broke 50 C during this while with the stock air cooler it would hit up to 80 C during this OC test. The utility never seems to try to test the mem of the vid card (Maybe it expects to crap out before max OC of the GPU before it OC's the mem), but I ran it up beyond what I knew it would do on air and did a few sessions of 3D Mark 06 and it worked good. The Swiftech BGA ramsinks with air blowing over them looks like it will work well.

Now with these mods along with the new PSU, I will start to play with the ATItool and PC Bios and see what I can max this PC out at.
 
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FatnSlo said:
front of the heatsink is now blocked by the fan, but realized that a long thin philips head screw driver could easy fit in between the Zalman fins to be able to reach the front mount screw.

yes .. the old screwdriver through the fins trick. man, i was mounting my modded HS with the motherboard still in the case ... and the bolt closest to the fan was somewhat of a pain; i must have seated and re seated 4 times.

initial idle drop of 7 degrees is not to shabby, btw ... :)

would love to see some pics; interesting to note your on take on how to utilize the mounting arms ...

sounds like it was a hoot.

btw ... regarding your tidewater kit ... how much of a pain is it to set up?

oh yeah. post pics.
 
DSCF0033.JPG
Please don't flame me on my shoddy wiring. This was after a full work day plus 10 hours of working on this and it was 4am. Thank God the Silverstone has removable power cables or the wiring would look even worse!

DSCF0042.JPG
Here is a close up of the mount that is now under the fan.

Sorry, but I forgot to take pics while doing the fan mod. As far as the Tidewater, it was pretty easy. The Swiftech sinks are perfect for this since you are probably going to have to modify any type of sink to clear the water lines. With the Swiftech's you can snip off pins with a pair of dykes and file down the sharp edges. I had to remove 4 pins on one and 6 on the other. I decided to use Thermal adhesive instead of the tape that comes on them after reading all the complaints on Newegg about them falling off. You could probably use the thermal tape on 5 out of the 8 and use adhesive on the three above the water block. The lines put no pressure on the left one, and just slight pressure on the right & center one.

Lapping the GPU water block was easy. Just don't forgot that there is water already primed in the block when you remove the lines so keep the module below you as you pull off the water lines. The water tubes are on the block real tight. Had to use a small screw driver to pry them off. Then tape up the inlets on the block before you lap. Once I was done lapping the block I attached the lines again and performed a water leak test. No leaks and the pump primed right back and had no air bubbles.

Since you have the same mobo as me, you will run in to a problem of how the module mounts in the MB. It uses two PCI slots to sit in. I could not mount it in the last set of PCI slots like the instructions show because it hits the SATA cables on the MB and the PCIEX1_1 slot is in the way. I also have a Audigy sound card in the last slot. To mount in any other place on the MB, the 2nd PCI E slot interferes with the mounting. I broke off one of the plastic edges on the module that sits in one of the PCI slots so it could sit in PCI2. It does not sit perfectly and I also had to snip off some of the tin on the back off my case too that was blocking the modules exhaust. I just have the module lightly screwed in to the back of the case because it does put some pressure on the MB. It is in tightly enough though and is solid.

Not shown in the first picture is a 120mm fan that is mounted to the case and sits over the vid card blowing air over the ram sinks. Also, behind the cardboard piece is another fan that blows air over and under the MB.
 
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nice! love the way you solved the shroud problem ... nice bending work.

when you get everything stable, post some bench numbers.
 
was looking at your pics ...

do you run your computer 24/7 with the side panel off?

looked like you were set up for something like that.

funny thing ... i used to do the same until i picked up an armor case that has the 250mm sidepanel fan; it's actually more hot with the side panel *off* than it is with the side panel *on* ...

sort of a dusty case since the whole thing is made out of, basically, steel/aluminum mesh ... but totally makes the side panel issue obsolete.

may as well drop another 150+ as long as your spending money! :)

here's a graph from a review showing the armor case vs. a standard side panel case:

chart1.gif

i can vouch for the above numbers being about right; been using the armor case for about 5 months now ...

here's a link to the armor review that i got that info graphic from:

http://www.bigbruin.com/2006/ttside_1
 
That Silverstone fan has a really high rated CFM for the dB rating. Many manufactureres play tricks with these kind of ratings :( what's your guys impression of the noise levels?
 
MadMan007 said:
That Silverstone fan has a really high rated CFM for the dB rating. Many manufactureres play tricks with these kind of ratings :( what's your guys impression of the noise levels?

i think the company specified decibels are about right ...

of course, i haven't gotten a mic out and actually measured ... but going by ear, it seems the advertised levels are accurate.

i'm not concerned with noise, myself; usually, if i'm watching a movie, playing a game or working on a song recording ... i could never hear the computer anyway as i'm wearing headphones or listening at fairly loud volume through stereo monitors ...

i will say this though:

at work, we just installed a 2ghz sony vaio computer ... someone found it in the trash (one man's trash ... etc.) ... and my computer, with 7 some odd fans is no louder than the stock vaio. dunno.

but, as far as your question ... the silverstone fan is not too bad at full speed (39dba or so i think); i can't really run it at anything other than full speed as i'm running a really hot (for air) overclock and so can't really comment on it's lower rpm settings.

i want to strap two of them to a noctua or thermal right heat sink ...

it's about the best 120cm fan i've used though ... barring the global win fan that i also tried as a zalman mod but which was quite a bit more noisey ...
 
Can I run that Silverstone fan from a 5.25" fan/temp controller? I hate it when they have their own dial.
 
jpinard said:
Can I run that Silverstone fan from a 5.25" fan/temp controller? I hate it when they have their own dial.

yes.

i'm controlling the silverstone fan from a generic 5.25" 4 channel fan controller.

i didn't use the supplied controller that comes included with the fan ...
 
leojharris said:
was looking at your pics ...

do you run your computer 24/7 with the side panel off?

Yes, I run with the case side off. I tried it with the case cover on when I first put the PC together before the Silverstone mod and the GPU cooler and my CPU temps were 10-15 C higher. I also now have two fans mounted to the case blowing down. Besides for the one I have blowing down on the Vid card, I added a $9.99 Zalman 80mm fan that came with a bracket that I now have mounted perpendicular and in front just above the Silverstone CPU fan blowing down. Would like a new case like that, but just can't spend anymore money. For the price of the Zalman 9500 sink, plus the cost of the Thermaltake GPU cooler and a new case like that, I could have just gone full blown water cooling with Swiftechs Ultra+ kit instead for the same price so I can't justify the cost of a new case.

Currently running at 3.7Ghz Dual Prime stable but my CPU temps run in to the high 60's due to the 1.5875 Vcore voltage I need to achieve a stable clock speed. I think I am running in to a problem of my fans recycling hot air from the CPU and Thermaltake exhaust along with everything else. While a case like you have would help that, I am thinking as a low budget fix I might try getting some clothes dryer hot air ducting and fitting them to the two fans I have blowing down in the case and routing them away from the PC so they pull cooler air from a different part of the room.

As a CPU, mem and vid card test I have been using http://www.techpowerup.com 's OCDB Automated Test Suite ( http://www.techpowerup.com/ocdb/ ). It uses Prime95, CPU-Z, Super PI, 3DMark05, and Everest to gather scores and uploads them to their website. I have been having a problem of the OCDB test crashing my PC though after the last test which is Everest and it is somehow tied to a problem when I use the ATItool. To be able to complete the test I had to revert to ATI's stock overclocker instead which is reducing my 3DMark05 scores by 2000 points. I can run the Everest test by itself while using the ATItool and it works fine so I am note sure why the problem would be related to the ATItool.
 
FatnSlo said:
Currently running at 3.7Ghz Dual Prime stable but my CPU temps run in to the high 60's due to the 1.5875 Vcore voltage I need to achieve a stable clock speed. I think I am running in to a problem of my fans recycling hot air from the CPU and Thermaltake exhaust along with everything else. While a case like you have would help that, I am thinking as a low budget fix I might try getting some clothes dryer hot air ducting and fitting them to the two fans I have blowing down in the case and routing them away from the PC so they pull cooler air from a different part of the room.

3.7 is nice; i'd personally back off the volts and keep temps around 55 at load if possible. i ran into the same thing ... was up around 3.65 to 3.7 and like you, had to up the volts; was running right under 70 degrees at load. backing off to 3.45 or so as my main work rig speed let me move the volts back down to 1.42. 8 hours dual prime now averages 55 with the occasional lower or higher peaks here or there but never hitting momentary highs of more than 58.

way i see it ... at an average temp of 55, over eight hours dualprime95 ... i'll *never* get anywhere near that sort of load during my normal audio video work ... not even close, really.

i'm going to check out the test suite you mention ...
 
My PC is primarily a gamer, plus work e-mails and web browsing so the CPU temps never gets close to what dual sessions of Prime95 does to the temps. I can get this thing up to 4Ghz but it requires a high Vcore voltage and I would never dare to try Prime95 with those voltages because the temps would be outrageous. My idle temps with 1.5875 volts is 51 C and about 57 C load for most regular apps I run. I could probably run a lower Vcore at 3.7Ghz to get lower CPU temps and still be able to use the apps I like or stay at 1.5875 volts and run 3.8 - 3.9Ghz with the same apps at the same temps I have now.
 
FatnSlo said:
I can get this thing up to 4Ghz but it requires a high Vcore voltage and I would never dare to try Prime95 with those voltages because the temps would be outrageous.

you would be okay running a dualprime test ... your cpu should throttle and nothing would get hurt.

throttling and it's impact on peformance is sort of interesting ... there's a free tool called rightmark cpu clock that runs in the background and will sound an alarm (and also track instances over time) when your cpu throttles (thermal management should be enabled in bios).

what i found on earlier cpu overclocks was that if my machine was throttling when running at one speed, say 4.0ghz ... it was actually slower in tests than when set at a more conservative speed of something like 3.7ghz but with no instances of throttling. the cpu rightmark app will not only track instances of throttling but wil also give a percentile indication of how *much* the processor was throttled. pretty cool.

here's a link to more info and download on the chance you don't already have the app:

http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml

i found that my cpu would throttle (P820D) around 72 degrees ...; with the new core2 6400, i haven't hit temps necessary to engage throttling and so can't say what the throttle limit is ...
 
DSCF0044.JPG


Thanks for the link. One problem with my setup was that the air coming out of the Zalman CPU sink was pretty much hitting a brick wall :bang head and had no flow at the back of the case. Although in my first pics I show having a 92mm fan behind it, this case was never made for a fan there and there was not much flow. I went ahead and cut out the back of the case for a hole size to allow a 120mm fan to flow freely (notice the high tech tie wraps holding it in! lol) and used some of the left over scraps of the hole to make a cheap mount for the 92mm fan I put in front of the Silverstone. I might try moving that clear 92mm fan around in different spots and see if it improves CPU temps. I had mounted that black Zalman fan/mount that is now blowing over the Vid card directly over the 9500 heatsink before but it did not help. Now that I have way more flow past the 9500 I might try putting that 92mm clear fan on top of the 9500 heat sink again and see if it helps even more.

Anyways, cutting that hole and adding that 120mm fan has dropped my temps 5-6 C so I am now in the mid 40's at idle and hit high 50's or low 60's in dual prime 95.
 
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