- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
It was a generic answer pointed toward no company in specific.
If you want to listen to him and use dye, be my guest, but we'll see you in a few months with clogged/stained blocks and rising temps.
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Non-conductive fluid?
- Thread starter ITAngel
- Start date
It was a generic answer pointed toward no company in specific.
If you want to listen to him and use dye, be my guest, but we'll see you in a few months with clogged/stained blocks and rising temps.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
This thread is still going? Good discourse and thoughts. Hopefully the OP gets the message. To bad the internet keeps stuff for millions of years and doesn't filter the crap. Like someone supposedly current on watercooling biocides and still brings up PT Nuke when is as superseded by PHN Nuke.... As of the last few days.....
No one in particular.....
OP: You want fancy color? Visit a disco. Build a machine. Make it last. You ain't a rock star, you will have a PC in a lonely room that does work. Make it work for you. Not a blinky thing no one else sees. Believe me in a few weeks you ain't got layed and it still is too bright. You look at the monitor, not the PC.
No one in particular.....
OP: You want fancy color? Visit a disco. Build a machine. Make it last. You ain't a rock star, you will have a PC in a lonely room that does work. Make it work for you. Not a blinky thing no one else sees. Believe me in a few weeks you ain't got layed and it still is too bright. You look at the monitor, not the PC.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2013
Edited my posts to reflect PHN Nuke. Didn't know PT Nuke was being replaced!
"You can lead a horse to water..."
In the end, no matter how many times we say STAY AWAY FROM DYES!!!!!11! it's ultimately up to the OP. We've warned him about dyes and we provided pictures on what dyes do to a loop, we provided him links to biocides and mentioned coloured tubing...
At this point, I'm going to take a back seat and see what he does.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
It was replaced over 5 years ago.................. Before I quit watercooling. Before your watercooling I think.....
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2013
Then yes, it was replaced before I went water....
Never really looked into those additives, just went with a silver coil.
This^ This ^
Have been water cooling since we had to make our own blocks
Distilled water/PT Nuke FTW .............
And this.
Just go for what works.
All the same metal, distilled water, sillver or copper sulfate. You have the best life span and lower temps.
That and distilled water is non conductive.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
It only remains non-conductive until it touches something and gets other substances in it.
Exactly, people forget that 'Distilled and/or De-ionised' water has had ions removed from it and as soon as its poured into our loops the water starts to aggressively absorb ions from all the metals in our loops (basic chemistry at work).
Within a few days/weeks its pretty much no longer distilled due to ion absorption and really just becomes standard conductive water.
This is why we see numerous instances of people experiencing various corrosion problems where no corrosion inhibitors have been utilised.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
It's worth noting that we use distilled because we want to control what is added to the water.
If you just used tap water anything from your home piping and/or added by local municipalities would be in the loop along with the chosen additives.
If you just used tap water anything from your home piping and/or added by local municipalities would be in the loop along with the chosen additives.
- Joined
- May 22, 2011
- Location
- USA
This is true with what ATM said. There's too many deposits and minerals. Quite different between the two even though liquid never turns out to be "non-conductive". That's just company PR again. Just one will have least amount of "stuff" in it which is the whole point and will leave room for better thermal properties.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
It still is MUCH better than tap water and MUCH better than any funny for sale liquids. It's conductivity is still WAYYY below anything else. That is the measure of ions and stuff in the water. Read my post err link I made about 20 posts ago with my old water tests.
Conductivity is kinda a misnomer in our usage. Water. even dyes is much less of a spill problem than the micro dust which is hair, bacteria, and all sorts of things. When the water drips on a board where a critical voltage connection is close to another, it's probably not the water, it's the mixing of all that stuff than can cause issues.
The word 'corrosion' is also another. A Bitspower fitting used for two years has a loss of nickle plating due to the natural flow of watr, like in a river, and some leaching of the cheap nickle plating (micromillimetersteenythin) that has work off due to natural physics laws.
Corrosion is an aggressive thing we just don't see anymore due to the materials we use.
- - - Updated - - -
Lastly, I'd run a loop for 6 months with the water from good home filtering system under the sink type (newish filters) with our metals we have now. No tap water though, some places have some really bad stuff.
Well I think anyone who would use tap water would be crazy due to the impurities and whatever salts/chemicals are added by various states/municpalities etc... I know here in my state our water is termed 'hard' due to excess minerals and the like - we also have had fluoride in our water for many years for dental hygiene.
The term 'conductivity' in regards to water should not be applied to its use in regards to whether it will cause an electrical short circuit or not but more so as an indicator for corrosion to be able to take place. Corrosion will only start if the water has enough ions to get the process started - if distilled water was the perfect insulator then corrosion would not be an issue.
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- Sep 15, 2007
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- Small town Emlenton, PA
Corrosion..... Drop it, the WORD itself. Read about it. It ain't happening in a modern loop. We have staining on copper, not corrosion. We have discoloration of nickle. Not the same as corrosion.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
- Location
- Republic of Texas
This is completely wrong; please take no offense.
I've spent many an hour in chemistry. Corrosion by definition is the oxidation of metal. The staining on copper exposed only to water is corrosion (oxidation) and any other reactive metal. Water is H2O (2 hydrogen atoms, 1 oxygen atom). The oxygen will recombine with any higher valent atom than hydrogen, and the hydrogen will recombine with any available less valent atom. Period. The same thing happens in air but at a much slower rate due to a lower oxygen saturation and the presence of other recombinants such as nitrogen in the atmosphere. Coating more reactive metals such as steel with a less reactive metal such as zinc, cadmium or nickel slows the process but doesn't eliminate the process, just changes the outcome: zinc oxide, cadmium oxide, nickel oxide, etc. Hydrogen left over after the protective plating layer has oxidized to an exposure state can embrittle the underlying metal, such as iron or steel, and cause embrittlement, weakening the base metal up to and including cracking. It's at a micro level but is a really bad outcome.Copper is frequenlty coated with nickel due to nickel's overall less reactive nature; aesthetics are a by-product.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
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- Small town Emlenton, PA
You are right. We need to understand the fine differences between the crazy use of the word corrosion and oxidation.
There is a way we use the words here. Needs to be fixed to help how we talk about this thing.
Oxidation. Which even happens on our car paint every single day and within our human cells.
Then we need to STAP STAP it CARL!!!! the craziness the internet provides.
It's only watercooling a PC, not a $500,000,000 desalinization plant.
There is a way we use the words here. Needs to be fixed to help how we talk about this thing.
Oxidation. Which even happens on our car paint every single day and within our human cells.
Then we need to STAP STAP it CARL!!!! the craziness the internet provides.
It's only watercooling a PC, not a $500,000,000 desalinization plant.
There are numerous examples on various forums with people experiencing corrosion of nickel parts whereby the plating has been eaten through - ie. not just basic dis-colouration so your statement does not quite hold up in the real world.
Here are some relatively recent examples with blocks from various manufacturers....
http://www.overclock.net/t/1379838/build-log-first-build-break-down-finding-lots-of-corrosion
Due to Silver and Copper Sulphate use
http://www.overclock.net/t/1499504/ek-blocks-3-years-5-months-later
Due to Silver use
http://www.overclock.net/t/1558227/aquacomputer-titan-blocks-nickel-plating-flaking-off
Copper Sulphate solution useage only
http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery/79140#post_23509039
Silver
http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery/54240#post_21345128
http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery/54300#post_21349081
Copper Sulphate
Also you may want to read this extensive report - They don't simply talk about discolouration here too much.......
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IMAGES/Corrosion_Report_Final.pdf
The thing is that not everyone will necessarily experience corrosion at the same rate as ones self as it boils down to too many variables in our loop makeup - but to dismiss it entirely is incorrect.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
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- Small town Emlenton, PA
I remember that EK fiasco. They denied all of it. Then recanted. They had poor plating issues. None of those are corrosion in my definition of corrosion. That is the discoloration of a poor nickle plating material, where flaking is shown, that is the NORMAL discoloration of copper when exposed to a water source over time. That said, it was pretty bad where nickle flakes were circulating in folks loops.
My Koolance nickle GPU blocks had a bit of discoloration but no flaking over time.. 2 years. I have also had pure copper Danger Den GPU blocks and a pure copper CPU block from Swiftech. Copper blocks will discolor, but there is no build up of any bits what I would call corrosion, like alum rotting or actual steel rust.
So yea, thanks for the examples, but we ain't talking the same thing here.
Ever seen an alum CPU block with holes eaten all the way through? I have. That's corrosion. It's just my definition of corrosion vs natural discoloration and OXIDATION.
No worries bud. Good discussion still.
My Koolance nickle GPU blocks had a bit of discoloration but no flaking over time.. 2 years. I have also had pure copper Danger Den GPU blocks and a pure copper CPU block from Swiftech. Copper blocks will discolor, but there is no build up of any bits what I would call corrosion, like alum rotting or actual steel rust.
So yea, thanks for the examples, but we ain't talking the same thing here.
Ever seen an alum CPU block with holes eaten all the way through? I have. That's corrosion. It's just my definition of corrosion vs natural discoloration and OXIDATION.
No worries bud. Good discussion still.
Catch is that a couple of links I posted also show Aquacomputer blocks suffering the same problem whereby the plating has been eaten away so can't blame EK for that...
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
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- Small town Emlenton, PA
Yep, don't mean that it didn't happen to other manufacturers. I had read that before. I do agree. It's chemically trues that a bit of silver aded to the loop or copper, or something else can cause this. If the plating was great in the first place it wouldn't of happened.
I view corrosion as a severe degradation of the material. Oxidation is much less, just a waethering of the surface.
And in your examples the nickle did degrade bad enough due to a poor quality nickle plating to expose the copper, where oxidation took place and began to work under the copper, removing the chemical bond of the copper to nickle and greatly increasing the damage. Thus even more plating loss.
I think we are beating a dead horse now though, I haven't seen any examples posted of damage like that in quite a while.
Distilled and a biocide of the right kind is cheap and proven effective in my book. I went over 2 years with nickle blocks and ran distilled, PHN Nuke and two IanH silver coils without changing the water.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-Hmm-I-guess-I-need-to-tell-you-a-dark-secret
Done here I guess.
I view corrosion as a severe degradation of the material. Oxidation is much less, just a waethering of the surface.
And in your examples the nickle did degrade bad enough due to a poor quality nickle plating to expose the copper, where oxidation took place and began to work under the copper, removing the chemical bond of the copper to nickle and greatly increasing the damage. Thus even more plating loss.
I think we are beating a dead horse now though, I haven't seen any examples posted of damage like that in quite a while.
Distilled and a biocide of the right kind is cheap and proven effective in my book. I went over 2 years with nickle blocks and ran distilled, PHN Nuke and two IanH silver coils without changing the water.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-Hmm-I-guess-I-need-to-tell-you-a-dark-secret
Done here I guess.
Agree - It really is just something noobs should be aware of as the majority of these corrosion instances are where people have let their coolant run in their loops for extended (aka - way too long) periods.
If people remember to perform regular coolant changes (especially as distilled water is certainly not expensive) then these issues can be pretty much be controlled.
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