Noob Here... Help? :) 12600k OC Temps/Settings?

[ForgottenUSA]

So I have my new setup here...
12600K
32GB DDR5 6000 Kingston Fury Ram "2 x 16GB"
2TB m.2 NVME
Windows 11 Home
EVGA RTX 3070 Ti FTW3 Ultra
Rosewill Gold 850 Watt PSU
MSI Z690 Pro-A DDR5 Version
Case MSI Dont remember right off hand? 3 x 120MM EXHUAST BLUE LED Coolermaster 95CFM Fans
Arctic II 360 AIO 3 x 120mm Coolermaster Blue LED 95CFM Fans Front Case Mounted Intake Fans

Now that is out the way...
Question 1: During Prime95 Stress Test I am hitting 99c on Core 1 - 3 and rest are about 90c to 95 and E cores are about 90c Wattage in CPUZ is showing 275+ Watts. Seems maybe I am maxed out in terms of CPU Cooler Potential?
P Cores are @ 5.1Ghz @ 1.43v with Level 3 LLC in CPUZ during Prime95 shows 1.4v during stress test.
E Cores are @ 4.0Ghz and
bus or ring is at 4.0Ghz
Ram @ 6000 Stock @ 1.35v I think? is this safe to run? long term within 2 years? seems stable Cine R20 is getting score of 7555 if that helps?

Question 2 , For gaming purposes only I was running P Cores @ 5.0Ghz @ 1.305v For over a Month no problem. Gain to get to 5.1Ghz from 1.3v to 1.4v seems a big jump
is it worth it? what other settings should I try?
Ambient Room temps is about 69F - 70F and I am running Thermal Grizzly Liquid Metal. DONT HAVE IT DELIDDED. My last cpu "8600k" was delidded lasted me all this time @ 5.1Ghz

 

[Woomack]

Looks like you use a too high voltage for 5.1GHz. Try with something near 1.3V. At auto, it sets 1.4V+, and then it will have 250W+. At manual 1.25-1.30V it will have closer to 200W and won't overheat.

Here is 5.1GHz at 1.27V on the Colorful motherboard and Noctua NH-D12L cooler.

 

[ForgottenUSA]

So anything below 1.38v after 5mins prime95 it fails... at 5.1ghz. 1.4v is table so far for 20 mins prime 95....

 

[ForgottenUSA]

Yeah, so I just tried 5.1Ghz @ 1.375 it BSOD's within 5 mins Prime95 , any possible settings tweak?

 

[Woomack]

I would check the voltages under load and/or adjust LLC. Something like hwinfo64 is about the best to check various voltages. It's because on most motherboards, CPU voltage under load is significantly lower than the VID set in BIOS.
It's also not guaranteed that 5.1GHz will work with AVX/AVX2. You may set it like no-AVX x51 or x52 and AVX -2, so x49/50. Barely anything uses AVX and without these instructions, the CPU runs much cooler and requires lower voltages.
There are no special tweaks for these settings. As long as voltages are stable then it works or not. Most guys on the forums overclock i7/i9 CPUs and they typically set 1.25V and test how high the clock will go. Usually it's 5.0-5.1 GHz with -2 AVX offset for p-cores, and 4.0-4.1GHz for e-cores.

 

[ForgottenUSA]

So, I may have not mentioned it above... however that was already done...
1. I always run prime95 with AVX
2. under load CPU-Z is same as aida64 on VID... just checked. 5.1Ghz all core "P cores" is only stable above 1.395v basically 1.4v...
3. LLC was always set to mode 3.
4. I had avx offset to -4 and tried -3 and -2 NADA at 5.1....
5. NOTHING i tried at 5.1 would work... I DID MESS WITH PER CORE OC..
Core 0: 5.1 MAX @ 1.4v MAX TEMP AFTER 30 MINS PRIME95 W/ AVX = 88
Core 1: 5.0 MAX @ 1.4v MAX TEMP AFTER 30 MINS PRIME95 W/ AVX = 88
Core 2: 5.1 MAX @ 1.4v MAX TEMP AFTER 30 MINS PRIME95 W/ AVX = 88
Core 3: 5.0 MAX @ 1.4v MAX TEMP AFTER 30 MINS PRIME95 W/ AVX = 88
Core 4: 5.1 MAX @ 1.4v MAX TEMP AFTER 30 MINS PRIME95 W/ AVX = 88
Core 5: 5.2 MAX @ 1.4v MAX TEMP AFTER 30 MINS PRIME95 W/ AVX = 88

Also.. so after all this I have a CRAP CPU.. it ran fine @ 5.0 @ 1.3v for 1 - 2 Months or so... but 5.1 is 1.4v... NO THANKS...
so??? guess what? I went to BestBuy today... picked up another 12600k Played the lotto... this thing has been running for awhile now about an hour I think and guess what...
I have it set to adaptive Voltage in bios Ram is set to XMP 2 5600 CL38 XMP 1 is 6000 CL 36 or 34 I ran before....
it's been running prime95 with AVX in bios set -2 @ 5.1Ghz @ 1.226v for almost an hour now @ 5.1ghz that first CPU must have been complete crap.
WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? I feel stupid almost... this can't be the case? now I will say.. before I had liquid metal 1.4v was max temp of 88.. which is pretty good with an AIO IMO. but.... I had to use some MX5 with today's install. and I hit 97 within 30 mins of Prime95 ... it's 69F in my room after 1 hour of Prime95 so almost same as other tests... I would really like if someone could go over all this with me?

 

[ForgottenUSA]

now trying 5.2Ghz.... LLC Mode 3.... 1.26v ??? WHATS GOING ON? im brain dead... now I know.. that temps bit high... but the fact i got this thing to even boot and run prime95 for more than 15mins @ 5.2ghz @ 1.26v is beyond my understanding compared to last chip... am I missing anything here? posted SS for everyone if it helps?

 

[Woomack]

Maybe your first CPU just wasn't the best. Some guys stop at 5.0GHz and ~1.3V, but it's hard to say if they test it right or just hit the wall and have problems with their cooling. Both my 12600K run about the same. Something around 5.1GHz 1.28V. My 12900K is not much better.
I generally don't care much about OC for daily gaming as it barely changes anything. What I like about these chips is that you can lower their voltage a lot and they still run at 4.7-5.0GHz. One of my 12600K was tested with Noctua NH-L9i at about 100W and was still running at 4.9GHz with AVX at about 4.4GHz.

Overclocking these chips is like setting high enough voltage and keeping low enough temps so it won't throttle. Then set the CPU frequency and that's all. There are no special tricks or anything else that will help. I just doubt that anyone will tell you much more than you already know.
I can only add that voltages like SA are heating up the CPU. Too high LLC adds some degrees too.
Looking at the screenshots, all seems fine. I wouldn't try to find problems here. Looks like the first CPU was just much worse for OC.

 

[ForgottenUSA]

I'm so relieved to hear that honestly. I mean I've been OC'ing since 2nd gen but I never considered myself knowing everything, I went from 2500k to 3770k to 4670k to 5820k to then 8600k and now 12600k. and seems like every time a little changes. but the e core thing through me off. right now Id like to ask how much ring and e cores as far as performance makes a difference if any? does it for gaming and such? Right now Ring is at 3.9Ghz and E cores are at 3.8Ghz. should I try higher? would it be better for gaming or basic multitasking? Sorry with all the posts and questions E cores and Ring I know very little about just wondering what I should adjust there. I might try and keep it @ 5.2Ghz if it stays stable at what it's at. I might try and Higher AVX offset just for benchmarking not sure at 4.7 Currently. Also.. You mentioned SA Voltages? I'm not 100% following on what that changes, are mine too high? could I turn them down from where I'm currently at?

 

[Woomack]

E-cores typically run at 4.0-4.1GHz and not higher. Ring is not changing much, but you can try and compare. It is supposed to be at least a 2-3x ratio lower than the p-cores ratio for the best stability.
On previous gens, bclk, PLL, vccin and other settings were affecting OC, performance and stability. Now barely anything helps. Clocks in older gens were also tied to PCIe while now have their own ratios so raising the bclk is not really helping (at least not on K series CPUs while non-K are limited in another way).

I have a new ITX build in plans with the 12600k, but my ITX motherboard is in RMA right now. I will test both my CPUs again as I want to run them as high as possible on a single 120mm rad.

 

[ForgottenUSA]

So Currently I found that my new Chip "12600k" it's doing 1.182v for 20 Hours so far @
5.0Ghz P Cores - 2AVX "4.8Ghz"
4.0Ghz E Cores
4.2Ghz Ring
Problem is I have tested it @ 1.182v but I have the bios set to voltage override mode. If I do offset it wants to-do it a 1.225v+ how to I change this?
I was able to-do 5.2ghz... but I need a better cooler then this Artic Freezer! I delidded my last CPU myself, but don't trust myself on a Soldered TIM. I found out the Rockit does a delid service with Copper IHS and Liquid Metal Replacement for $99! they are out of Texas, I'm in Louisiana so shouldn't be that long of wait! I am going to-do this and see where I land. Although It was stable @ 5.2Ghz @ 1.29v It ran about 100C on 3 - 4 Cores. to hot for my liking! Thoughts?

 

[EarthDog]

I'm not sure if paying for a deciding service is worth it. You may get another 100-200mhz out of it? Just depends on the cooler and drop cause of the delid.

As far as the offset... use a negative offset to reach the desired voltage.

 

[ForgottenUSA]

ok will check on offset I'm trying to go as low as I can go voltage wise @ 5.0 Temps are max 85. but I havnt added Liquid metal at all yet just MX-5. I do want to point out that they also stress/performance test it which is included for the $99 with shipping to and from included... in fact these are their prices.
Delid/Relid Service: $39.99 USD
Delid/Relid with Copper IHS: + $30 USD
Performance Test: $50 USD
Install Copper IHS + Performance Test: $60 USD
All of those options are included for 2day shipping back. Not bad compared to the Silicon Lottery Company that shut down. I mean where I was going with it is I'd like to run 5.2Ghz @ 1.3v but not run at 100c. That isn't worth the $100 by itself no, you are correct or at least I agree with you but then there is this ....
I want to then add liquid metal. Which they are seeing about 10 to 15c drops in temps just adding copper IHS and Liquid metal to replace the stock. then if you do liquid metal between the cooler and CPU as well I personally saw a -8 to -10c drop on my other 12600k @ 1.35v. so I'd be willing to bet that Copper IHS + Liquid Metal under IHS + LM between Cooler id see about 10 - 20c Drop total. Not to mention lower heat = Better stability correct? if I'm wrong then I still see a benefit as i can run 5.2ghz at 1.3v @ 80 to 90c instead of 100c.. all Day that is worth it to me... but I haven't even mentioned that I plan on ditching this cooler "Artic II 360 AIO" and getting custom water cooling and going with at least a minimum of a 480mm rad setup. should cool better then my AIO 360. Hopefully... and once I add all this together I'm hoping to hit 5.2Ghz+ I mean right now.. I'm not even sure that's the limit to this chip as good as this thing is acting... I'm not claiming glory over all chips.. but I'm impressed that its doing 5.2 @ 1.3 to begin with. so if I can manage my heat.. maybe do all these mods.. I think its respectfully possible to walk away with 5.3 or 5.4 or 5.5Ghz at 1.4 or so Volts at 90c instead of 5.0 @ 100c..... big dream maybe. but if the CPU will do it... I'm game. if not ill stick the cooler/radiator in my ice machine !!!!!! roflmao

 

[Woomack]

Delidding will give you about ~10°C lower temps. Unless it's throttling, it won't give you anything. If it's throttling then simply won't throttle. Somehow I doubt you will see more than 100MHz improvement.
Custom water cooling won't give you much over a 360 AIO. The simple reason is that 360 AIO in theory can transfer 300W of heat with fans at about 1k RPM. 12600K is ~170W CPU, so the problem here is not the thermal capacity of your water cooling, but the transfer of the heat from a small CPU die to the cooler. Considering that, delidding+liquid metal still has some point but investing in $400+ water cooling for a $300 CPU is let's say waste of money. A large custom water kit is a better idea if you have a CPU with many more cores and large dies.

Just my thoughts about it.

 

[EarthDog]

Adding to that, I doubt you'll get another 15C off just by using liquid metal. If you look at any modern thermalpaste roundups liquid metal Tim's are a few C better than most others.

 

[ForgottenUSA]

Adding to that, I doubt you'll get another 15C off just by using liquid metal. If you look at any modern thermalpaste roundups liquid metal Tim's are a few C better than most others.

I wasn't saying I'd get another 15c. I was saying they are claiming 10 to 20c with the copper ihs and liquid metal. But I do somewhat agree with you. But I find it hard to believe that custom water cooling won't be better. Especially going with multiple rads and such. Right now I'm hitting 60db while hitting the Temps I am. My fans are loud. They claim they are 94cfm @ 2000rpm. Kind of ridiculous if you ask me noise wise. But only time will tell for sure. I appreciate all the help. Oh I was going to say. I was pushing almost 300 watts during stress testing. Of course I do believe that was at 1.4v+ and even if I can only do 5.3 I'm fine with that. End of day I got a better chip other one wasn't wanting todo anything really above 5.0.

 

[EarthDog]

The point you may be missing in all of this, that Woomack touched on above, is that it's not the amount of radiator that's the problem. It's getting the heat out of the die TO the radiator that's the problem. Surely, a delid and new TIM helps, but, as we said, it's not going to help as much (MHz-wise) as you want. If what we're saying is worth it to you, then by all means, do it...we're here to help. But just understand that throwing more radiator at it, even with a delid and liquid metal, won't yield significant improvements (MHz-wise).

Glad you got a better chip. That first one seemed like a dud.