On the 7xx series: Oh, woe to my 580gtx SLI rig...

[DarkPurity]

...for it SLI's no more.

A couple of years ago I set up the following configuration:

160GB Intel SSD
3 TB HDD (2 drives)
8GB RAM
2x 580GTX 1.5GB RAM SLI (MSI Twin Frozr coolers)
i7-2600k
1200w PSU

Over time, performance has waned. It was partially heat; even with cleaning out the fan filters on my case I found myself clocking the cards down ever more toward their factory settings. Bioshock Infinite finally took me the rest of the way down because any OC at all caused stability problems.

One of the cards was never as stable as the other due to a damaged resistor thanks to a clumsy (now ex) girlfriend I had at the time. No, that's not why she's an ex, but it didn't help her case. I had been able to run both cards for quite some time, however, until recently. During a session of Dead Island Riptide, however, my computer crashed like Courtney Love on a Monday morning. After that, anything that spiked GPU usage blackscreened me.

I removed the cards and this time, instead of "standard maintenance", removed the heat sink and fans to discover that of my 2 cards, only one still had fans that would rotate. I tried cleaning them out, greasing them, etc. but of 4 fans, only 3 of them were spinning. I then tried so hard to repair the 4th fan that I broke it and had to clip it off. I tried running with 3 fans but the card with the gimped cooler was also the one my ex damaged, and any hope of functionality was gone. I'm relatively certain that thing is a brick now. In another PC it doesn't even detect as a video card.

Now I'm down to one 580GTX. One of the two fans is limping along and the other is now making a sound like a bumblebee trapped in a tin can if I run anything. We're talking STO, jMonkeyEngine, OGRE3D, stuff that doesn't exactly bring a fully functional 500 series to its knees. I can probably buy a new cooling system, but I game largely in 3D and have already discovered that 3D is very demanding on newer games. Going down to one GPU has really hurt me, at least from that generation. So, I'm thinking maybe it's time for the Next Generation

My options are:

1x 780 GTX - 3GB of RAM and raw power are very attractive. Price approx $650 USD. Wife approved getting it a twin once I get the card paid off from that purchase.

1x 770 GTX - 4GB of RAM for only $450 USD, but I'm concerned. While this will definitely outperform a 580 in terms of raw power, what about that memory bus? I'm enjoying 384-bit interface as is and the 770 drops down to 256-bit. At 256-bit, would I really see my super-high-resolution texture mods for Bethesda games use that extra memory, or would I really see a difference between that at the 2GB variant? This, also, would get wife approval for a second one down the road.

2x 760 GTX in SLI- 4GB of RAM again since the 4GB variant is out, but the same 256-bit interface as the 770. At around $560 - 600 for the two together this is probably the most cost effective, but the same questions arise over memory as do with the 770. Another issue here is that I'm limited to Amazon financing at the moment, and nobody seems to be carrying the EVGA or Gigabyte 4GB 760GTX there.

As I limp away on the beehive in my rig, I find myself dealing with complete marketing overload. I don't know what to buy. Help!

Edit: For those unfamiliar, 3d means I'm gaming at 120hz not 60 for my refresh rate. I also am frame-sensitive below 42 FPS and find 30 to be too slow. Also, I sometimes output to a 55" TV as well as my monitor. Both connections are no higher than 1080p resolution, and only the main monitor is used for 3D.

 

[Boulard83]

I'd go the 780 route.

 

[DarkPurity]

I'd go the 780 route.

What makes you choose the 780?

 

[GTXJackBauer]

From the looks of your setup I would also advise you to just grab a 780. Its a beast. I just purchased a 780 HC myself yesterday and can't wait to use it in surround. The 780 is basically a Titan Jr. as most like to call it. There are reviews of folks OCing it and pacing if not outperforming by a few % of its big more expensive brother the Titan. Same PCB.

The 770 is basically a 680. Just tweaked more. I thought about grabbing 2 760s but figured I was better off with the raw power of the 780.

 

[Boulard83]

The 780 have a much better GPU and memory bus to drive your 3D needs. If you were only gaming at 2D 1080p or lesser the 770/760 could be a better choice ( no real need for the 4gb ).

I run a surround 5760x1080 with a single 780 and BF3 stay well above 45fps all the time. Buttersmooth.

 

[DarkPurity]

Single 780 sounds like the way to go so far.

Next question: What would be better, a standard version without factory OC so it vents out the back on a stock cooler, or a factory OC version with a cooler that blows into the case? Keep in mind im gonna SLI this eventually.

 

[Boulard83]

Factory OC never worth it since AFAIK they are not binned. This mean that a "standard" card could end up OCing better than the "pre OCed" version and vice versa. Unless you pay the "pre OCed" version the same price or it have the cooling/pcb you want, never go "pre OCed" and OC it yourself.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

I run a surround 5760x1080 with a single 780 and BF3 stay well above 45fps all the time. Buttersmooth.

Is this in ultra max settings with AA+?

Factory OC never worth it since AFAIK they are not binned. This mean that a "standard" card could end up OCing better than the "pre OCed" version and vice versa. Unless you pay the "pre OCed" version the same price or it have the cooling/pcb you want, never go "pre OCed" and OC it yourself.

+1

Was just explaining that in another thread.

 

[Boulard83]

Is this in ultra max settings with AA+?

BF3 runs smooth at ULTRA + 2xMSAA on my single 780 @ 5760x1080.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

BF3 runs smooth at ULTRA + 2xMSAA on my single 780 @ 5760x1080.

That sounds great! My only worries is how much FPS I will lose with my existing X58 rig @ PCI-E 2.0 x16. I am hoping its just a couple FPS.

 

[DarkPurity]

Weighing in once more on this subject, I just got off the phone with EVGA. I learned some interesting things. I was trying to find out shipping options (which they can't quote over the phone) but had to call them to tell them that their e-commerce server was throwing an OutOfMemoryException. While on the line, I asked what I asked here, as follows (I'm paraphrasing):

1. I'm replacing 1 dying and 1 dead 580GTX I had in SLI for 3D gaming at 1080p. I can afford either 1 780 GTX with 3GB DDR5 or 2x 760 GTX that have 4GB DDR5. Which should I do?

A: Regardless of the numbers posted for specs, nVidia knows exactly what they want to happen when they make a series of cards. Their goal in design is for each generation to be only one step up from the last, plus a little bit more. So, with that considered, 580gtx = 670 gtx = 760 gtx in terms of raw performance you'll actually experience, plus a little bit extra. I'd recommend 2x 770 GTX in SLI, but make sure you get the 4GB version if you're doing 3D because you're going to need it. Since the memory on both cards will have the same information in it, 2GB with two processors grinding away would be a waste. I bet with 1.5 on the 580's you probably saw some lag loading textures in 3D on newer games; that was why.

2. With what you just said about general equivalency, it sounds like I can get better performance than I experienced so far just by having 2x 760GTX? I can afford the 770's but the 2x 760 solution sounds like it's still better than what I had, ever.

A. Yes, and we just released a 4GB version recently. Which reminds me, let me send that ticket to IT, I'm getting the same error you got...

3. One more question; what's the better cooling solution, in your experience, on air cooling? Blower or flat fan?

A. People really like the ACX fan design and say it cools well, but it's really a matter of personal preference. That's why we have Superclocked cards with both coolers. If you're short on space between the cards in SLI, go with Blower or make sure you have special cooling blowing between the cards directly to dissipate the heat.

From this conversation, and I have to say he seemed pretty knowledgeable and honest, we can presume the following:

Given that we know 2x 760GTX outperforms 1x 780GTX

If 580GTX = 0.8p, where p is the performance of a 760gtx and 0.8 is assuming a 0.1 performance increase by generational equivalency....

2x 580GTX is approximately = 1x 780gtx, +/-0.1p

This means a purchase of 2x 760GTX to put in SLI with 4GB of RAM will outperform the 1x 780 GTX in practical application, provide a better solution for 3D, and comes out between $50 and $90 cheaper than the 780GTX.

Please dissect/rip apart/diss 90's style my assumptions and findings. I want all the info I can have before I pull the trigger.

 

[ssjwizard]

The real question is do you really want to start in an SLI config? I used a few generations of SLI and you have been using 580 SLI for some time now. Yes 2x 760s are a touch faster than a 780, but 3x SLI is not a practical setup for a potential future upgrade and the performance scaling on 3x GPUs isnt very good. With a 780 you get near the same performance, but you avoid any potential SLI related issues, and if you should decide you do need more performance 2x SLI is still an option.

 

[DarkPurity]

ssj, I think this may have partially been a case of my drool getting in the way of my vision. I kinda reset my head; I'm just repairing damage.

I've been using SLI long enough that I got one of the nifty "Club SLI" shirts, the fan grille with SLI on it, and that poster of two fairies from nVidia that said "SLI, two is better than one" for being one of the first 2000 or so SLI users. I'm no stranger to the tech.

I looked at the situation more realistically and seeing as I'm using a 2600k i7, I realized that I'm more likely to buy a whole new rig before I'd fork out for a second 780. At that time, I'd be looking at the 9xx series to replace the 7xx series anyway. The motherboard only supports 2x SLI so 3x isn't even a concern.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have $1300 worth of video cards cranking away (after all, that's how much it cost to have 2x 580GTX when I got them), but with 2x 760's i'm already getting a performance improvement over the 580 setup, as well as that of a single 780, and i'm paying less for the two cards than the 1 780GTX costs. Probably more value for the money in that. After all, my 580's in SLI outperformed the 780GTX, even though a single 760GTX outperforms a single 580, so I wouldn't be doing this at all if they hadn't died a violent, cat-fur-instigated incendiary death.

 

[anhikilator]

Just so you know, I got 2x770 4gb and I'm having a blast. I'm not playing surround but using a 1440p monitor. Games run very smooth and SLI scales awesome. I was a previous owner of a 295 (sandwich sli) 2x580s and 2x7970s. I love SLI as much as I hate CF. I couldn't be happier with the setup for my budget. Of course, I would like to have 2 780 but it was cost prohibitive. I'm sensitive to low fps spikes and I have none with these guys in 95% of the games I own.

SLI for 1080 is pointless but for me, it's totally worth it if you go any higher, either 1440p or surround.

 

[ssjwizard]

All sounds pretty reasonable to me. I was just making sure to point out the only other factors you may have forgotten. Sometimes SLI can provide killer performance VS a single card. Im sure that 2x 760s will do quite nicely for you.

 

[DarkPurity]

SLI for 1080 is pointless but for me, it's totally worth it if you go any higher, either 1440p or surround.

I use 3D, which effectively renders the data you'd send to two monitors to one monitor in order to trick your brain into perceiving depth. I think it's probably likely one should view running 1080p in 3D as running 3840x1080 for the purposes of calculating how much it taxes the card. Thus my attraction to SLI.

All sounds pretty reasonable to me. I was just making sure to point out the only other factors you may have forgotten. Sometimes SLI can provide killer performance VS a single card. Im sure that 2x 760s will do quite nicely for you.

Thanks for the input and angle, I do appreciate everyone who's helped me make the decision.

I pulled the trigger on 2x 4gb 760's direct from EVGA a little bit ago. They have them for $10 cheaper per card than Newegg right now. They also ship certified ground for $8 where I'm at, for both cards together.

I think what I'll do with the 580 is remove its fans, as well as the vanity frame from MSI, and see what monstrous homebrew cooling I can invent for it before I pass it on to my son.

 

[anhikilator]

I use 3D, which effectively renders the data you'd send to two monitors to one monitor in order to trick your brain into perceiving depth. I think it's probably likely one should view running 1080p in 3D as running 3840x1080 for the purposes of calculating how much it taxes the card. Thus my attraction to SLI.

I was seconding your election! I've never said the opposite. SLI!

 

[GTXJackBauer]

The real question is do you really want to start in an SLI config? I used a few generations of SLI and you have been using 580 SLI for some time now. Yes 2x 760s are a touch faster than a 780, but 3x SLI is not a practical setup for a potential future upgrade and the performance scaling on 3x GPUs isnt very good. With a 780 you get near the same performance, but you avoid any potential SLI related issues, and if you should decide you do need more performance 2x SLI is still an option.

This. Well put wizard.

Also, even though its the same architecture (Kepler), the 780 I think will outperform those cards in SLI (760s) when OC'd. They have more Vram but the bus is higher for higher resolutions which I hear is better. Correct me if I am wrong. Again, the 780 is basically a Titan Jr. and a cut down of the server based K20x hense the name Titan.

 

[manu2b]

SSjwizard made a point here!

I'd go with a 780 and add one down the road if needed.

 

[Ivy]

Well, the SLI 760 in theory is more performance for lesser bucks and the 780 will suffer massive price drops as soon as another GPU with better specs is released (from AMD).

But the problem, especially for 3D, is that the 760 is only 2 GB RAM and thats just to less for the 3D games. So Nvidia was adding that weakness on purpose because there is always some weakness for good priced stuff. So, there isnt much choice... pay hard and at least it should work well.

Of course the memory management is a key but im afraid, even with the best management, it can become problematic. 1080P probably still possible in 3D but any resolution higher than that may crack down the RAM stuff.