Upgrading an old AK37GT beyond a 1.4 Ghz Chip...

[joe m]

I want to try and upgrade an older computer from an AMD Athlon 1 ghz chip to a 1.4 ghz on a AK37GT MOBO which supports a (according to the manual)..

.. AMD Athlon Proc w/200/2660 Mhz FSB
.. AMD Duron Proc w/ 200/266 Mhz FSB
.. AMD Athlon XP Processor w/ 266 Mhz FSB

(chipset features VIA KT400, BT8667 N.B. and VT8233A S.B. - for more details see below)

However, I read that a chip greater than 1.4 Ghz can be used. I'm curious... does anyone knows what precisely are these limitations to exceed the 1.4 Ghz limit with particulars to the Shuttle AK37 MOBO

I've done a search and am not able to find particulars. However, it seems that other forums indicate that certained AMD Socket462 chipsets can be used (and, have been used) successfully. However, they must be an "unlocked" version dated after a certain model (i.e. 340 or greater).

I have found very little information regarding my particular MOBO (i.e., the
Shuttle AK37GT) limitations regarding the ability to use a AMD chip beyond
the text book/manual 1.4 Ghz Athlon chip limit.

Anyone with particular experience with this older model MOBO and have used a chip faster than 1.4 Ghz (BTW, the MOBO currently runs a 1 Ghz AMD Athlon Chip?

Joe
===================================================

Details and MUCH More information regarding my system...

Field Value
Motherboard Properties
Motherboard ID 08/09/2004-AK37-6A6LYH29C-00
Motherboard Name Shuttle AK37GT(R)

Front Side Bus Properties
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 100 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 200 MHz
Bandwidth 1600 MB/s

Memory Bus Properties
Bus Type DDR SDRAM
Bus Width 64-bit
DRAM:FSB Ratio 5:3
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth [ TRIAL VERSION ] MB/s

Chipset Bus Properties
Bus Type VIA V-Link
Bus Width 8-bit
Real Clock 67 MHz (ODR)
Effective Clock 533 MHz
Bandwidth 533 MB/s

Motherboard Physical Info
CPU Sockets/Slots 1 Socket 462
Expansion Slots [ TRIAL VERSION ]
RAM Slots 4 DDR DIMM
Integrated Devices Audio
Form Factor ATX
Motherboard Size 240 mm x 300 mm
Motherboard Chipset KT400
Extra Features [ TRIAL VERSION ]

Motherboard Manufacturer
Company Name Shuttle Inc.
Product Information http://global.shuttle.com/Product/M..ad/Download.asp

---------------------------------------------------------

Field Value
North Bridge Properties
North Bridge VIA VT8377 Apollo KT400
Supported FSB Speeds FSB200, FSB266, FSB333
Supported Memory Types DDR-200 SDRAM, DDR-266 SDRAM, DDR-333 SDRAM
Revision 00
Package Type 664 Pin HSBGA
Package Size 3.5 cm x 3.5 cm
Process Technology 0.22 um
Core Voltage 2.5 V
In-Order Queue Depth 4

Memory Controller
Bank Interleave 4-way

Memory Timings
CAS Latency (CL) 2.5T
RAS To CAS Delay (tRCD) 3T
RAS Precharge (tRP) 3T
RAS Active Time (tRAS) 7T
Command Rate (CR) 1T

Memory Slots
DRAM Slot #1 256 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)
DRAM Slot #2 256 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)
DRAM Slot #3 512 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)

AGP Controller
AGP Version 2.00
AGP Status Enabled
AGP Device ATI Radeon 7000/Radeon VE DDR
AGP Aperture Size 128 MB
Supported AGP Speeds 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x
Current AGP Speed 4x
Fast-Write Not Supported
Side Band Addressing Supported, Enabled

Chipset Manufacturer
Company Name VIA Technologies, Inc.
Product Information http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets
Driver Download http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2
Driver Update http://driveragent.com?ref=59

Problems & Suggestions
Problem Current AGP speed is lower than maximum supported. This may cause performanc
e penalty.

----------------------------------------------------------




Field Value
CPU Properties
CPU Type AMD Athlon, 1000 MHz (10 x 100)
CPU Alias Thunderbird
CPU Stepping A9
Instruction Set x86, MMX, 3DNow!
L1 Code Cache 64 KB
L1 Data Cache [ TRIAL VERSION ]
L2 Cache 256 KB (On-Die, Full-Speed)

CPU Physical Info
Package Type 453 Pin PGA / 242 Contact Slot A Cartridge
Package Size 4.95 cm x 4.95 cm / 13.99 cm x 6.27 cm x 1.64 cm
Transistors [ TRIAL VERSION ] million
Process Technology 6Mi, 0.18 um, CMOS
Die Size [ TRIAL VERSION ] mm2
Core Voltage 1.75 V
I/O Voltage 1.6 V
Typical Power 34 - 65 W (depending on clock speed)
Maximum Power 38 - 72 W (depending on clock speed)

CPU Manufacturer
Company Name Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Product Information http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors.. />
18,00.html

CPU Utilization
CPU #1 1 %


Field Value
Memory Module Properties
Module Name Kingston K
Serial Number 011E6652h (1382424065)
Manufacture Date Week 37 / 2003
Module Size 256 MB (1 rank, 4 banks)
Module Type Unbuffered
Memory Type DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed PC2700 (166 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8 us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

Memory Module Features
Early RAS# Precharge Not Supported
Auto-Precharge Not Supported
Precharge All Not Supported
Write1/Read Burst Not Supported
Buffered Address/Control Inputs Not Supported
Registered Address/Control Inputs Not Supported
On-Card PLL (Clock) Not Supported
Buffered DQMB Inputs Not Supported
Registered DQMB Inputs Not Supported
Differential Clock Input Supported
Redundant Row Address Not Supported

Memory Module Manufacturer
Company Name Kingston Technology Company, Inc.
Product Information http://www.kingston.com/products/default.asp

Field Value
Memory Module Properties
Module Name [ TRIAL VERSION ]
Serial Number 4818D3A7h (2815629384)
Manufacture Date Week 49 / 2003
Module Size 256 MB (1 rank, 4 banks)
Module Type [ TRIAL VERSION ]
Memory Type DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed PC2700 (166 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8 us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

Memory Module Features
Early RAS# Precharge Not Supported
Auto-Precharge Not Supported
Precharge All Not Supported
Write1/Read Burst Not Supported
Buffered Address/Control Inputs Not Supported
Registered Address/Control Inputs Not Supported
On-Card PLL (Clock) Not Supported
Buffered DQMB Inputs Not Supported
Registered DQMB Inputs Not Supported
Differential Clock Input Supported
Redundant Row Address Not Supported

Memory Module Manufacturer
Company Name Kingston Technology Company, Inc.
Product Information http://www.kingston.com/products/default.asp

Field Value
Memory Module Properties
Module Name [ TRIAL VERSION ]
Serial Number None
Module Size 512 MB (2 ranks, 4 banks)
Module Type [ TRIAL VERSION ]
Memory Type DDR SDRAM
Memory Speed PC2700 (166 MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5
Error Detection Method None
Refresh Rate Reduced (7.8 us), Self-Refresh

Memory Timings
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
@ 133 MHz 2.0-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

Memory Module Features
Early RAS# Precharge Not Supported
Auto-Precharge Not Supported
Precharge All Not Supported
Write1/Read Burst Not Supported
Buffered Address/Control Inputs Not Supported
Registered Address/Control Inputs Not Supported
On-Card PLL (Clock) Not Supported
Buffered DQMB Inputs Not Supported
Registered DQMB Inputs Not Supported
Differential Clock Input Supported
Redundant Row Address Not Supported

------------------------------------------------------------

Field Value
CPUID Properties
CPUID Manufacturer AuthenticAMD
CPUID CPU Name AMD Athlon(tm) processor
CPUID Revision 00000644h
Extended CPUID Revision 00000744h
Platform ID CFh (Socket A)
IA CPU Serial Number Unknown
HTT / CMP Units 0 / 0

Instruction Set
64-bit x86 Extension (AMD64, EM64T) Not Supported
AMD 3DNow! Supported
AMD 3DNow! Professional Not Supported
AMD Enhanced 3DNow! Supported
AMD Extended MMX Supported
Cyrix Extended MMX Not Supported
IA-64 Not Supported
IA MMX Supported
IA SSE Not Supported
IA SSE 2 Not Supported
IA SSE 3 Not Supported
IA SSE 4 Not Supported
VIA Alternate Instruction Set Not Supported
CLFLUSH Instruction Not Supported
CMPXCHG8B Instruction Supported
CMPXCHG16B Instruction Not Supported
Conditional Move Instruction Supported
MONITOR / MWAIT Instruction Not Supported
RDTSCP Instruction Not Supported
SYSCALL / SYSRET Instruction Supported
SYSENTER / SYSEXIT Instruction Supported
VIA FEMMS Instruction Not Supported

Security Features
Advanced Cryptography Engine (ACE) Not Supported
Data Execution Prevention (DEP, NX, EDB) Not Supported
Hardware Random Number Generator (RNG) Not Supported
Montgomery Multiplier & Hash Engine Not Supported
Processor Serial Number (PSN) Not Supported

Power Management Features
Automatic Clock Control Not Supported
Enhanced Halt State (C1E) Not Supported
Enhanced SpeedStep Technology (EIST, ESS) Not Supported
Frequency ID Control Not Supported
LongRun Not Supported
LongRun Table Interface Not Supported
PowerSaver 1.0 Not Supported
PowerSaver 2.0 Not Supported
PowerSaver 3.0 Not Supported
Processor Duty Cycle Control Not Supported
Software Thermal Control Not Supported
Temperature Sensing Diode Not Supported
Thermal Monitor 1 Not Supported
Thermal Monitor 2 Not Supported
Thermal Monitoring Not Supported
Thermal Trip Not Supported
Voltage ID Control Not Supported

CPUID Features
36-bit Page Size Extension Supported
Address Region Registers (ARR) Not Supported
CPL Qualified Debug Store Not Supported
Debug Trace Store Not Supported
Debugging Extension Supported
Fast Save & Restore Supported
Hyper-Threading Technology (HTT) Not Supported
L1 Context ID Not Supported
Local APIC On Chip Supported
Machine Check Architecture (MCA) Supported
Machine Check Exception (MCE) Supported
Memory Configuration Registers (MCR) Not Supported
Memory Type Range Registers (MTRR) Supported
Model Specific Registers (MSR) Supported
Page Attribute Table (PAT) Supported
Page Global Extension Supported
Page Size Extension (PSE) Supported
Pending Break Event Not Supported
Physical Address Extension (PAE) Supported
Secure Mode Extensions (SMX) Not Supported
Secure Virtual Machine Extensions (Pacifica) Not Supported
Self-Snoop Not Supported
Time Stamp Counter (TSC) Supported
Virtual Machine Extensions (Vanderpool) Not Supported
Virtual Mode Extension Supported

Problems & Suggestions
Suggestion SSE is not supported. Upgrade your CPU to speed up applications o
ptimized for SSE.

--------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Joe

 

[-_{MoW}_-Assasi]

pretty old stuff u got there

Well, the mobo can support any socket 462(Socket A) CPU that has a 100mhz or 133mhz FSB

 

[joe m]

Yep... 133 mhz is max (well, maybe... some say 166 mhz)... but, it's the multiplier changes in combination with max. FSB supported by the MOBO I'm not sure about .

According to this ( http://71.252.162.48:8080/Fastcpu.htm ), the fastest AMD CPU is any 50 mhz to 166 mhz chip bumped up by a 24x multiplier. So if the mfg. says the maximum chip for my MOBO is 1.4 GHz, is this is not true? According to this you can buy a 2.8 Ghz chip w/ a 133mhz MOBO... you can actually bump this to 2.4 Ghz by increasing the multiplier to 24 (24 X 100 mhz - assuming a max FSB of the MOBO is 100 mhz). Is this correct?

The problems is that the AK37 MOBO indicates a max FSB of 266... I am assuming that you can't increase the multiplier by 24 and simply get a 266 mhz X 24 type speed to equal a 6.4 GHz (that would be nice though ). It seems that 133 FSB (or 166 mhz?) is max and that so long the FSB is capable of 133 FSB then you can get a 2.4 Ghz chip speed out of any MOBO that allows a multiplier of any number that equals a max of 24x. So, a 100 FSB times 24 would give a 2.4 Ghz or a 233 FSB times 10X would give a 2.33 GHz chip. This would mean that the max 1.4 GHZ chip (per manual) is NOT correct. It would seem you run a Socket A Chip set on and AK37 MOBO at much higher GHz's. Is this correct?

I am kind of loss as to actually how to change the CPU PnP Setup and the Multiplier (what combination? ). I have this site that does a descent job of showing a cross reference for the multiplier... but, I'm not sure how to read it or understand exactly what my MOBO will accept... here is the site (also cross-referenced in the original site noted above: http://71.252.162.48:8080/Multiplier_cross_reference.htm

And (while I'm at it, I might ask) considering all issues (i.e., reliability, overheating, etc), would this be that much better than overclocking the current 1 GHZ chipset?

Another question that comes to mind is... does a chip that runs at what is said to have a FSB 200 (i.e., the suppose max FSB for the AK37 MOBO - see effective clock of Front Side Bus properties under detailed information in previous post) must I use a multiplier of 12ish ( or higher? )... OR, as the information indicated by the actual clock of the motherboard to be 100mhz needs a multiplier of 24x? I'm not sure which I should use as the FSB for the MOBO... the effective FSB or the actual FSB (or, neither?) . Plus, I would like to know from someone who has done this if it will create some unknown issues.

Joe the novice.

SIDENOTE: BTW, If memory is correct... I run a 400 watt power supply and have 4 cooling fans (one directly on the chipset with a funnel to direct airflow over chip).


==========================================================

For those whose browser may not link to sites noted above (or, need a quick reference), here is the text:

What's the fastest AMD cpu I can use in my socket A board

The quick answer is take the maximum speed of your FSB and multiply it by 20.5. For most of you, this will mean they haven't made a cpu that you can't run in your board. I don't care who made the board or what model it is, this is the only thing that matters, barring initial design flaws by the manufacturer. The one thing that you can't do is use the bogus FSB numbers. Example: the FSB of the 2800+ is 166MHz, NOT 333MHz. The official minimum FSB speed for all K7 CPU's is 50MHz and the maximum is 166Mhz. Although both of these numbers can be exceeded in either direction.
So if you have a 1st generation KT133 (non-A) chipset, then the fastest you'll get your FSB to is about 116MHz. this would limit you to 2378MHz. That would equate to approximately the speed of a Athlon XP 3000+.

I believe all the other information that is required to use these faster cpu's is contained in the other cpu articles on this wedsite. Read them and you should have a good understanding of how this works. And be sure and follow the links. They provide excellent info.

Updated: 4/04/03
It's now known that the top multiplier is 24x. This was discovered with the introduction of the B core 2100+. Several people (including myself now) have installed this cpu in a KT133 chipset board (Abit KT7's) and it booted without modification at 2000MHz default (20x100). Also see multiplier cross reference on this site.


Update 12/05/03: CPU's with a date code of 0339 and later are being multiplier locked internally by AMD. Since the multiplier can't be changed via any method at this time on these locked cpu's, you will only be able to run the cpu at default multiplier times the max FSB speed you can get from your motherboard.

------------------

Multiplier cross reference for boards that only support 4 multiplier bits.

I've made every effort for this to be correct. If you find a mistake, please let me know. This chart is valid only for cpu's that have a default multiplier of 13 or more. The 5th multiplier bit will be set high on these cpu's (2100+ and up, excluding Bartons up to the 2800+)

Update 12/05/03: CPU's with a date code of 0339 and later are being multiplier locked internally by AMD. Since the multiplier can't be changed via any method at this time on these locked cpu's, you will only be able to run the cpu at default multiplier times the max FSB speed you can get from your motherboard. If you have one of these locked cpu's, the following does NOT apply.

Dip sw or bios setting High multiplier setting
3.0X Not a valid setting
3.5X 19X *
4.0X Not a valid setting
4.5X 20X *
5.0X 13X *
5.5X 13.5X *
6.0X 14X *
6.5X 21X *
7.0X 15X
7.5X 22X
8.0X 16X
8.5X 16.5X
9.0X 17X **
9.5X 18X
10X 23X
10.5X 24X
11X Not a valid setting
11.5X 19X
12X Not a valid setting
12.5X 20X

* May not be valid on some boards
** Reported to be the only setting that works with Abit KT7A boards and a 133MHz FSB. May apply to other KT133A chipset boards too.


Other multipliers with 133MHz FSB on KT7A (and probably other KT133A chipset boards)
The following was copied from a post in the newsgroups. I can't confirm it, but I think the source is reliable.

Just ground one of the multiplier bits from the socket (3rd =2x, 4th=4x or
5th=8x). This way I was able to boot with fsb 133 and up.

3rd pulled LO atleast multipliers 15-16.5 works with fsb 133

4th pulled LO multis 13-14 works with fsb 133

5th pulled LO multis 5-12.5 works with fsb 133

The bit you want to ground depends how far your memory can take the fsb. If
you cannot complete the boot sequence with 17x133 then try lower multi with
higher fsb (not 2.26Ghz but still faster). I am running mine at 145x15 =2175
with Vcore 1.65 and VIO 3.6.

Teemu