Agreed. If you add a second GTX570 you will get up towards the 600W range, is that what you calculated for?
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Water cooling build from scratch...
- Thread starter thebski
- Start date
Agreed. If you add a second GTX570 you will get up towards the 600W range, is that what you calculated for?
- Thread Starter
- #22
I used the calculator at this link:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
I am planning this build for GTX 570 SLI. I just put my processor, clock, and voltage and selected GTX 570 in SLI and it came up with 623 watts. I would like to have some headroom for additional graphics overclocking and who knows what CPU's I will get into down the road.
I am planning to add the second card by the end of the year, so while I won't have two cards right away, I want to have the radiator space (or at least have the room for the radiator space) to add the second card whenever that happens.
Also, most of my prices came from frozencpu.com or just total guesses.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
I am planning this build for GTX 570 SLI. I just put my processor, clock, and voltage and selected GTX 570 in SLI and it came up with 623 watts. I would like to have some headroom for additional graphics overclocking and who knows what CPU's I will get into down the road.
I am planning to add the second card by the end of the year, so while I won't have two cards right away, I want to have the radiator space (or at least have the room for the radiator space) to add the second card whenever that happens.
Also, most of my prices came from frozencpu.com or just total guesses.
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2010
- Location
- Marietta, GA
again, focus on the basics, if you just go grab a bunch of parts you'll end up with either a) a sub par loop or b) more expenses as you replace the items that were wrong the first time around.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Location
- Ringgold, Ga
Write this down. Took me forever to find it my first time. Most guides didn't post it when I started learning. Might be different now but just in case.
This is for finding heatload on an over clocked cpu.
((TDP•OCF)/SF)•(VC^2/VID^2)=HEATLOAD
You can find most of this info with google.
TDP = Chip tdp (thermal desing power)
OCF = Overclocked Frequency in mhz. I.e. 4ghz oc = 4000 mhz.
SF = Stock Frequency in mhz.
VC^2 = V CORE SQUARED
VID^2 = STOCK V CORE SETTING SQUARED.
Info for your set up.
I7 920
TDP = 130 Watts
SF = 2660
OCF = 4000
Multiply tdp • ocf = 520,000
Divide that by sf = 195.49 (rounded up for simplicity)
Now vc^2 = 1.23•1.23 = 1.51
VID^2 = 1.27•1.27 = 1.61
Divide vc by vid and get .94
Now multiply these answers together to get your new tdp (heat load)
195.49 • .94 = 183.76
For real world usage you can multiply that by .8 to get 147 watts of heat to dissipate from your cpu.
Unless you plan on over clocking your gpus you can google gtx 570 tdp. I found 243 watts. Again multiply times .8 to get a better real world figure and you come up with 194 watts • 2 gpu = 388 watts from gpus.
388 + 147 = 535 total watts to dissipate.
Now you don't need that calc. Work it out for yourself and see if you get the same answer.
This is for finding heatload on an over clocked cpu.
((TDP•OCF)/SF)•(VC^2/VID^2)=HEATLOAD
You can find most of this info with google.
TDP = Chip tdp (thermal desing power)
OCF = Overclocked Frequency in mhz. I.e. 4ghz oc = 4000 mhz.
SF = Stock Frequency in mhz.
VC^2 = V CORE SQUARED
VID^2 = STOCK V CORE SETTING SQUARED.
Info for your set up.
I7 920
TDP = 130 Watts
SF = 2660
OCF = 4000
Multiply tdp • ocf = 520,000
Divide that by sf = 195.49 (rounded up for simplicity)
Now vc^2 = 1.23•1.23 = 1.51
VID^2 = 1.27•1.27 = 1.61
Divide vc by vid and get .94
Now multiply these answers together to get your new tdp (heat load)
195.49 • .94 = 183.76
For real world usage you can multiply that by .8 to get 147 watts of heat to dissipate from your cpu.
Unless you plan on over clocking your gpus you can google gtx 570 tdp. I found 243 watts. Again multiply times .8 to get a better real world figure and you come up with 194 watts • 2 gpu = 388 watts from gpus.
388 + 147 = 535 total watts to dissipate.
Now you don't need that calc. Work it out for yourself and see if you get the same answer.
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #25
I guess I don't know what you mean by focus on the basics. I've already done quite a bit of reading and read through some beginners guides. I'm not done reading by any means, but I think I'm ready for a more advanced guide. I'll just highlight what I know in each area so you can see where I'm at knowledge wise and I'm sure how far I have to go. But I do want to learn, so just as I did when I started building computers I'm going to cover my bases on all component areas and make sure I make informed and educated decisions. I'm ultimately trying to become very knowledgable with computers. I've gotten the hardware side and building down pat. Now the next step is to advance into water cooling.
As far as general understanding about water cooling, I grew up on a farm and around mechanics. I understand the concepts behind water cooling. I understand about resistance through length of tubing and higher restriction blocks and pressure drop as all that occurs. I also understand that you're measuring your systems performance by the temperature difference of the water and your ambient air temperature. I get that the pump must always follow your resevoir so it's never dry and that order doesn't matter after that because it's essentially an entire body of water that is heated to roughly the same temperature no matter where in the loop you measure.
Radiators:
I know about the difference sizes (120.1, .2, .3, .4, 140.1, .2, .3, 200.1, etc). I've read that you should use a 120.1 for each block you're cooling except you want a 120.2 for an i7 due to them running hotter. I also understand about the fins per inch. HWlabs makes high fins per inch which are high performance radiators but only at high fan speeds to push through all the fins. Then there are radiators like the SR1 series that are optimized for fans with very low flow.
I personally would like to be somewhere in the mid range. I recognize that there's no way I'm going to be able to fit enough radiators inside an HAF X to cool an i7 920 and GTX 570 SLI all overclocked "silently". At the same time, I don't want a bunch of Scythe fans running at 2500 rpm and 50 dB either. I had stated the XSPC radiators above because in skinnee's review they were the best at mid range. I'd like to have fans I can run between 800-2000 rpm (or somewhere in that range) with a fan contoller. I don't mind turning them up some if I'm in hardcore game mode, but I don't want fans spinning at 2000 rpm all day long because that's louder than what I have now.
Pumps:
I haven't read as much about pumps because mostly everything I see uses a Swiftech MCP655. This pump seems to be a large pump than can pump through long loops with multiple blocks. I know that it's important to be able to maintain something like 2 GPM through your loop.
Hoses:
I know you do not want to buy cheap hoses. Cheap hoses will kink in tight places and I know I'm going to have tight places. I've read tygon is the best, although some of you guys are telling me Primochill LRT is all I need. I'm leaning towards half inch because it doesn't sound like there is much difference if any between half inch and 3/8, but the MCP 655 pump has standard half inch barbs and I can get half inch fittings for other blocks. I don't want a lot of reducers or adapters because that's just going to increas my chances of having a leak. I kind of wanted red colored hoses to match the red/black theme of the HAF X, but it sounds like they show up orange under UV light. I don't want mismatches on colors. I'll probably buy a black Primochill hose with red anti kink coils. Putting dyes in my system is completely out of the question as I do not want buildup in my system and would like to keep it as low maintenance as possible
Liquid:
Im planning on going straight distilled water from the grocery store. Right now I'm leaning on putting a silver kill coil in the line, but I could go with biocide too. Like I said, absolutely no dyes or additives other than a biocide.
Resevoir:
It doesn't sound like resevoir matters a whole lot as long as it comes before the pump. I want a bay resevoir with preferrably a black red theme. I was preliminarily thinking a Danger Den or XSPC 5.25" bay res that will feed down to my pump. But again, if I understand correctly resevoirs are mainly chosen by location/aesthetics as long as it's before the pump. I do understand that a res is responsible for getting the air out of your system, but I assume any decently branded res will be able to do that?
Fittings:
I know there are 3 types of fittings: barbed, compression, and quick diconnects.
I will say that I don't think I really want barbs just because I'd like to have the clean look of compression fittings. I haven't done as much research on fittings yet, but I know I'm going to want at least one QDC to drain my loop. I've pondered a t-line with a QDC I can attach to drain the loop or also putting my graphics cards on QDC so I can remove them if I need to and also I can then just hook up a spare hose and let the loop drain. If I were to do barbs they would be metal and not plastic.
Fans:
Well there's a million of them. I don't think I'll have room in my case for real thick ones (32mm, I'd probably opt for 25mm). I also want one that can be adjusted between 800-2000 rpm with a fan controller. I'm planning on having one fan per 120/140mm slot. I haven't decided on the push/pull/air flow of the case yet. That will all depend on radiator sizes/locations etc.
Waterblocks:
It sounds like the Apogee XT and EK Supreme HF are the two flagship blocks. I know the EK is a high flow and the Apogee is a more restrictive/low flow solution. I've read that the revision 2 of the Apogee is much less restrictive though. I haven't read literature directly comparing the two yet, but I'm guessing with me trying to fit in one loop I'd be best to go with the lower restriction solution.
As far as GPU I'm going to go with a full coverage solution. I'd be all about the EVGA HydroCopper block if they made one with a GTX 570 sticker on it, but since my block is going to say GTX 580 anyways I'm probably going to go with the EK full coverage solution.
I know there are some metals you do not want to mix, but haven't spent enough time researching that just quite yet.
That pretty much sums up most of what I've read so far. That's not all inclusive, but I think most of what I'm missing out on are the details. If there is more conceptual research I still need to do I will, but I feel like I've read through basic beginners guides and have a pretty good guage of that stuff.
Thought's on anywhere I'm misled or things I need to understand better? I'm going to read more on heat output of my specific components and just keep scouring the forums.
As far as general understanding about water cooling, I grew up on a farm and around mechanics. I understand the concepts behind water cooling. I understand about resistance through length of tubing and higher restriction blocks and pressure drop as all that occurs. I also understand that you're measuring your systems performance by the temperature difference of the water and your ambient air temperature. I get that the pump must always follow your resevoir so it's never dry and that order doesn't matter after that because it's essentially an entire body of water that is heated to roughly the same temperature no matter where in the loop you measure.
Radiators:
I know about the difference sizes (120.1, .2, .3, .4, 140.1, .2, .3, 200.1, etc). I've read that you should use a 120.1 for each block you're cooling except you want a 120.2 for an i7 due to them running hotter. I also understand about the fins per inch. HWlabs makes high fins per inch which are high performance radiators but only at high fan speeds to push through all the fins. Then there are radiators like the SR1 series that are optimized for fans with very low flow.
I personally would like to be somewhere in the mid range. I recognize that there's no way I'm going to be able to fit enough radiators inside an HAF X to cool an i7 920 and GTX 570 SLI all overclocked "silently". At the same time, I don't want a bunch of Scythe fans running at 2500 rpm and 50 dB either. I had stated the XSPC radiators above because in skinnee's review they were the best at mid range. I'd like to have fans I can run between 800-2000 rpm (or somewhere in that range) with a fan contoller. I don't mind turning them up some if I'm in hardcore game mode, but I don't want fans spinning at 2000 rpm all day long because that's louder than what I have now.
Pumps:
I haven't read as much about pumps because mostly everything I see uses a Swiftech MCP655. This pump seems to be a large pump than can pump through long loops with multiple blocks. I know that it's important to be able to maintain something like 2 GPM through your loop.
Hoses:
I know you do not want to buy cheap hoses. Cheap hoses will kink in tight places and I know I'm going to have tight places. I've read tygon is the best, although some of you guys are telling me Primochill LRT is all I need. I'm leaning towards half inch because it doesn't sound like there is much difference if any between half inch and 3/8, but the MCP 655 pump has standard half inch barbs and I can get half inch fittings for other blocks. I don't want a lot of reducers or adapters because that's just going to increas my chances of having a leak. I kind of wanted red colored hoses to match the red/black theme of the HAF X, but it sounds like they show up orange under UV light. I don't want mismatches on colors. I'll probably buy a black Primochill hose with red anti kink coils. Putting dyes in my system is completely out of the question as I do not want buildup in my system and would like to keep it as low maintenance as possible
Liquid:
Im planning on going straight distilled water from the grocery store. Right now I'm leaning on putting a silver kill coil in the line, but I could go with biocide too. Like I said, absolutely no dyes or additives other than a biocide.
Resevoir:
It doesn't sound like resevoir matters a whole lot as long as it comes before the pump. I want a bay resevoir with preferrably a black red theme. I was preliminarily thinking a Danger Den or XSPC 5.25" bay res that will feed down to my pump. But again, if I understand correctly resevoirs are mainly chosen by location/aesthetics as long as it's before the pump. I do understand that a res is responsible for getting the air out of your system, but I assume any decently branded res will be able to do that?
Fittings:
I know there are 3 types of fittings: barbed, compression, and quick diconnects.
I will say that I don't think I really want barbs just because I'd like to have the clean look of compression fittings. I haven't done as much research on fittings yet, but I know I'm going to want at least one QDC to drain my loop. I've pondered a t-line with a QDC I can attach to drain the loop or also putting my graphics cards on QDC so I can remove them if I need to and also I can then just hook up a spare hose and let the loop drain. If I were to do barbs they would be metal and not plastic.
Fans:
Well there's a million of them. I don't think I'll have room in my case for real thick ones (32mm, I'd probably opt for 25mm). I also want one that can be adjusted between 800-2000 rpm with a fan controller. I'm planning on having one fan per 120/140mm slot. I haven't decided on the push/pull/air flow of the case yet. That will all depend on radiator sizes/locations etc.
Waterblocks:
It sounds like the Apogee XT and EK Supreme HF are the two flagship blocks. I know the EK is a high flow and the Apogee is a more restrictive/low flow solution. I've read that the revision 2 of the Apogee is much less restrictive though. I haven't read literature directly comparing the two yet, but I'm guessing with me trying to fit in one loop I'd be best to go with the lower restriction solution.
As far as GPU I'm going to go with a full coverage solution. I'd be all about the EVGA HydroCopper block if they made one with a GTX 570 sticker on it, but since my block is going to say GTX 580 anyways I'm probably going to go with the EK full coverage solution.
I know there are some metals you do not want to mix, but haven't spent enough time researching that just quite yet.
That pretty much sums up most of what I've read so far. That's not all inclusive, but I think most of what I'm missing out on are the details. If there is more conceptual research I still need to do I will, but I feel like I've read through basic beginners guides and have a pretty good guage of that stuff.
Thought's on anywhere I'm misled or things I need to understand better? I'm going to read more on heat output of my specific components and just keep scouring the forums.
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2010
- Location
- Marietta, GA
Major thing you're missing is pumps, skinnee has some great work on pumps that he and vapor have done, check that out...also, check out these
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223391
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=261778
that should get you covered on fans
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223391
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=261778
that should get you covered on fans
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2007
Hokiealumnus just finished this guide, it's an excellent read
Check out the section on pumps, you've got the 655 mixed up with the 350/355
You're on the right track with the Koolance QDC, I've used them for years and LOVE THEM
Check out the section on pumps, you've got the 655 mixed up with the 350/355
You're on the right track with the Koolance QDC, I've used them for years and LOVE THEM
- Thread Starter
- #29
Ok, I've pretty much settled on a Swiftech MPC35X pump and a HWlabs SR-1 140 for the 140mm fan slot on the back of the HAF X. After some reading I really think I need to plan on being able to cool 600 watts. 650 or so would be even better just because I'd like a little headroom for the future.
If I stay with the XSPC RX360 V2 according to skinnee I could cool about 400 watts with just this radiator alone. I have no idea how much the 140mm will cool, but I'm not very confident it's an additional 200-250 watts. I would much rather be on the safe side than on the short side of radiator space. I'm just not sure I can fit much more than a 120.3 and 140 in an HAF X. I'm going to be pissed if I can't use that case!! Anyone know of any configurations to fit more radiator area in that case?
If I stay with the XSPC RX360 V2 according to skinnee I could cool about 400 watts with just this radiator alone. I have no idea how much the 140mm will cool, but I'm not very confident it's an additional 200-250 watts. I would much rather be on the safe side than on the short side of radiator space. I'm just not sure I can fit much more than a 120.3 and 140 in an HAF X. I'm going to be pissed if I can't use that case!! Anyone know of any configurations to fit more radiator area in that case?
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2010
- Location
- Marietta, GA
How about hanging it off the back?
- Thread Starter
- #31
Well I've thought about that even though I wanted to keep it internal, but I guess I don't understand how you can hang a 120.2 or 120.3 off the back and still access your PCI expansion slot connecitons. Maybe I'm just being dumb, but wouldn't the radiator be in the way of your graphics hookups, etc.?
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Location
- Ringgold, Ga
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2007
Have you thought of using the Phobya 200mm rad up top? I used it in the front of a 600T and was really impressed
http://www.techreaction.net/2010/11/28/blog-corsair-graphite-series™-600t-all-internal-dual-loop/
- Thread Starter
- #34
If I'm just going to mount a single 120 or 140 in the back 140mm fan hole of the case I think I can mount it internally. At least I'm pretty sure I've ran across pictures where guys have had a 120.3 in top and a 120.1 in the back all internal. Would I still need that mounting bracket? I was just thinking hanging a 120.2 or 120.3 off the back would block VGA expansion slots, but I know guys have done it before. How do they get around that?
MIAHALLEN,
I have thought about the Phobya 200mm, but rather than putting it up top I've considered putting it on the side panel where the 200mm intake fan normally resides on the case. If I were to do that I would just put QDC's on the radiator to allow for easy side removal for maintenance. That would give me a 120.3, 140, and 200 mm radiators all internal if I could squeeze it all in there. That would be plenty.
The only thing is I've read that 200mm fans aren't good for water cooling because they don't provide enough air pressure to push through resistence (i.e. fins).
MIAHALLEN,
I have thought about the Phobya 200mm, but rather than putting it up top I've considered putting it on the side panel where the 200mm intake fan normally resides on the case. If I were to do that I would just put QDC's on the radiator to allow for easy side removal for maintenance. That would give me a 120.3, 140, and 200 mm radiators all internal if I could squeeze it all in there. That would be plenty.
The only thing is I've read that 200mm fans aren't good for water cooling because they don't provide enough air pressure to push through resistence (i.e. fins).
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2007
The 200mm rad is optimized for the low pressure 200mm fans on the market and works fine (why would Phobya not optomize it for what's available?). The rig I built had exceptional cooling on the GPUs thanks to the 200mm rad....worked great. Check out the blog for details
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2010
- Location
- Marietta, GA
make sure you figure out how you're gonna mount the side rad, because mounting it to the door is dumb if you open your computer with any sort of regularity
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Location
- Ringgold, Ga
I think this guy is ignoring everything I say. 
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2010
- Location
- Marietta, GA
I think this guy is ignoring everything I say.
welcome to helping people lol
- Thread Starter
- #40
I think this guy is ignoring everything I say.
Daemonkin, please don't feel like that. I'm not ignoring anything anyone says because you guys are all much more knowledgable than me. I missed the link with the whole radiator mount out the back though. That does answer my question about the PCI expansion hookups. Thank you. I'm still going to try to keep it internal, but that isn't a bad backup plan if it's just simply not going to work.
I also appreciate your wattage calculations and I did use them. I just want to take the wattage I need to cool now and add ~100w to it for future use.
I have no idea what a Core i7 two generations from now will produce for heat or how much GTX 780's in SLI will produce.
