STOP RMAing STUFF YOU BREAK!

Like it says – Zach Johnson

I’d like to relate a story to you, if you don’t mind.

A few months ago, I was sitting in morning assembly, half-listening to the slew of sports-related announcements, when somebody came up and said this:

“STOP CHEATING!”

Now, to understand why this is significant, I’ll take you back a little more. Recently there had been more than a handful of people caught cheating. People erased other people’s names on scantron tests and wrote on their own – they plagiarized, lied, copied tests, copied homework, what have you.

Everyone knew it was happening, but nobody thought to tell everyone that there was a simple solution; be honest, don’t cheat, and then you don’t get in trouble for it.

Now you might be thinking, “What does this have to do with anything?” Well, the answer is this:

“STOP RMAing STUFF YOU BREAK!”

It is not your God-given right to RMA something. It is a privilege. If you look at any vendor’s site, you’ll read all kinds of stuff on the return policy. I like the bit that says:

“Physical damage to any product will void the product’s warranty. Modifying a product in a permanent way is considered physically damaged. Newegg.com cannot honor warranty for CPU’s that have bent pins, cracked or chipped cores, burnt or otherwise sustained any other type of physical damage. Physical damage voids any warranty previously implied for any product.”

When you so much as paint the bridges on a CPU or use defogger on your Radeon 9500 NP in the hopes of getting a successful “hard-mod”, you’ve clearly damaged it physically if you try to return in. Yet it’s easily wiped off or covered up.

What about overclocking in BIOS? You can volt-mod the thing to death, destroy RAM, hard drives, processors, etc. Is that physically damaged? Why, yes . . . But they can’t see it. So everyone thinks to themselves “Oh, it’s not ‘damaged’, it just doesn’t work”. TIME TO RMA!!!!!

The first thing wrong with this:

It is damaged, whether internally or externally. Just because you can wipe off the evidence or never generated evidence doesn’t mean you didn’t do it. Lying may get you thrown in jail in court, but you don’t even get a slap on the wrist for doing it here.

Second thing:

There’s not a soul on this site that can tell me if they owned a company and people were bringing back merchandise that they broke and YOU had to pay for it, not them, that you wouldn’t be furious. Why? It’s not fair, of course. Everyone loves to jump on the “bitch and moan” train when something bad happens or they’ve been “wronged”.

Well, I’ll be the first to point it out, but in RMAing something you broke, you’re wronging the company to whom you’re returning the “defective’ merchandise. RMAing a perfectly working CPU because it’s the wrong stepping is just as wrong. Places like Newegg don’t specify steppings and make no guarantees about steppings.

You get what you pay for, that’s what they say. If you want a guarantee, you have to pay a premium on a different site.

Third and worst thing:

Not only do some of you do this, but you ADVERTISE your actions and PROMOTE them to others! MY GOD! What is wrong with this?

Did it ever occur to those guilty of this action that SOMEBODY has to pay for it? Just because you avoid the cost doesn’t mean somebody else won’t. In the end of the RMA loop, somebody pays.

Let’s consider the wrongs here:

1. It’s not fair. While you may say that’s stupid, if you bitch and moan about things when they aren’t fair to you, shut up, because you’re a hypocrite.

2. The cost of RMAing something falls on places like Newegg or AMD. You send them your broken merchandise, they send you a free new processor or video card. Just because you didn’t pay for it doesn’t make it free. AMD or ATI still made the thing and sold it to Newegg. So Newegg gets screwed.

Let’s say AMD takes the hit, just in case I’m wrong. Newegg sends them back to AMD and AMD says, “We’ll reimburse you” or something like that. So now AMD took a hit. But guess what? They know that. So what do they do?

They raise to prices on CPUs, on retail products, and then vendors hike up their prices, not only to cover the increased cost of obtaining the processor or video card, but because they’re losing money too, so they increase their mark up. Who pays for that? We do . . .

3. I’d venture to say that this is somehow illegal. It could be mail fraud, breach of contract, or some other random thing that applies. Hell, it might be a federal offense, since you’re probably sending it inter-state, although it’s a federal offense just to commit mail fraud, I think.

4. It makes you look really stupid. What happens when you see a car chase on TV or a bank robber bragging, in real life OR in a movie? You laugh and say “what a dumb***”. Why? Because they’re advertising their offense and making it worse by running. Here you are telling the entire Internet that you just committed a crime, either legally or morally, like it’s no big deal.

If you’ve somehow taken offense to my little article here, then either it’s because you commit this wrong and don’t agree with me, or you think it’s too strongly worded. Well, this stuff makes me mad, so that’s why it’s worded the way it is.

It’s like a hit-and-run. You commit a crime, you act like you didn’t do it or that it doesn’t “count”, and then you run away because you got away with it. That doesn’t mean you didn’t do it.

Own up to what you’ve done. You buy it, you break it, you keep it; simple as that.

Zach Johnson

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Avatar of amdperson
amdperson

Member

343 messages 0 likes

I think its wrong to RMA stuff YOU break. People have got to take resonsibility for the things THEY break. Its thier own stupidity if they break break something they just bought and they should accept the penelty.

Coz in the end someone has always got to foot the bill.

I have read that article and fully agree.

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ColtIce

Disabled

1,398 messages 0 likes

i too have read the the article and agree.I had to return a mobo to a b/m strore last month that was doa you would not believe the amount of questions i had to endure just to get it swapped.I do NOT blame the store I blame the people RMAing the things they break.what I'd like to know is how are you breaking this stuff?Do you not know what your doing?what are we going to do when the companies get sick of it and the warranty periods start getting shorter and shorter?

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Avatar of cV
cV

Member

565 messages 0 likes

I never RMA stuff I break, even accidentally.

By the time I break it, there's much better stuff anyway. :p

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S
Southpaw

Member

116 messages 0 likes

I totally agree...I think it comes down to basic ethics/morals....I never swap things I break...either as a result of overclocking, modifying, etc... It just makes everything cost more in the long run...The biggest RMA scandal I can think of is the Sapphire 9500P-->9700P softmod....Newegg must have had hundereds if not thousands returned on that one...Why?? Just because the board you got didnt take the softmod....

I guess that is why we are all different....If everyone RMA'ed or everyone was ethical...it would either be a boring place to live or an expensive one...

SP

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zachj

Chainsaw Senior

1,708 messages 0 likes

I got a lot of emails about that, and still get them, even . . .

Most people agree, some really don't. I'll be surprised if people come forward and point the finger of blame at themselves, but it's still reasonable to ask.

I'll tell you, the only email I got that said I was wrong that came even remotely close to having a legitimate point was regarding the issue of MP3s. All the other emails I got were basically "shut the he** up and stop complaining about it" or "you're wrong". The point they made is that everyone has MP3s and one wrong is as wrong as another, so it doesn't really matter. He also suggested that a lot of people use pirated software or cracks and whatnot. I responded that back in the day (Napster), nobody even thought to consider that MP3s were illegal. I mean, yea, it's obvious, but not if you don't think about it. Speeding is illegal, but you don't really think about it being illegal when you do it. After it was pointed out, then it was a choice to keep doing it. The point of my article was to point it out, just in case somebody didn't know. I don't think I stopped anyone from doing it, but until I started getting hate mail, I felt better having gotten it off my mind.

And yes, the Sapphire Radeon 9500np was probably the biggest RMA crapfest Newegg and a lot of other vendors ever got, besides XP1700+s. . .

I really do want to see some people say they think it's okay. When people emailed me saying I was wrong, I wrote each one back (it was more than 50). None that said I was wrong responded, as I recall. Maybe one or two did, but they didn't prove their point, they just told me I hadn't swayed them. If people actually tried to prove their point (with facts, of course, and without name calling), this could get interesting.

Z

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Avatar of stompah
stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member

2,051 messages 258 likes

I agree with dont return something that YOU/I broke. I just have a distaste for those who argue with me about what was broke by me and what shouldnt be expected.

Honestly I feel if a motherboard box says 200MHz fsb it damn well better hit 200fsb. AND they should tell me what combo was used to test that FSB. Even if I cannot buy the parts I want to know so someone who can can test it indepently. I had an issue with my KK266r. This board was not an overclocker. So I returned it. Once I got the MSI kt266 and verified what my components could do I RAMed it. The fact that the audio did not work on the kk266 had nothing to do with my decision to return it but if it makes you happy it helped to validate it.

I have issues with memory speed claims.

Alot of guys will jump on the manufacturers side but what about the consumers? Lets say I bought 400MHz RAM and could not do that. I start to read and others with same and different combos have the same issues. Some people also have used their combos with different RAM to reach those speeds. BUT the motherboard or CPU was overclocked to reach those speeds. Can someone return their KNOWN underperforming RAM ethically if they are overclocking only their CPU and/or MB? If you think not please tell me. I would liek to give you an example.

I am sorry people are IMing me from left and right and my train of thought got sidelined a few times but these are my jumbled thoughts if you disagrre do not fear telling me if you wish to listen to my retort because I will listen to what you say.

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Avatar of zachj
zachj

Chainsaw Senior

1,708 messages 0 likes

I totally agree about parts that won't work as advertised, but that's not the same thing. I purchased CrucialPC2700 which didn't do more than 145MHz. I RMAed it because it was by definition broken. I read a lot of reports online that said that my particular stick was known to cause problems and not work right. I aksed Crucial before I did it just to make sure it was okay, and they said "go for it". But that's not the same as breakING something. If it's BROKEN when you get it, RMA it. If it breaks after you get it due to something you did, it's your own fault. I don't know that I agree about "overclocking motherboards". If they don't run as SPECIFICALLY advertised and you know your other components will and have run at that speed, then I guess it's okay. But I've never seen a mobo that says exactly how high it will go or how high it was tested stabily. So you have to take the manufacturer's very broad "overclocking" term with a grain of salt. If they test it at 5% overclock, and it won't do 15%, is that their fault? I agree that if they advertise it as "overclocking-friendly", they need to post just how friendly it is, as well as what parts were used during the tests.

Z

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Avatar of stompah
stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member

2,051 messages 258 likes

I didnt say claims for overclocking I said writing on the box for 200fsb... I am basing my arguement on my kk266r. My replacement was better but still couldnt max out fsb. Iwill should tell me what RAM, CPU and HD were used so I duplicate what their box says.

I agree with you on the Crucial bit. You would return a CPU if it could run at its advertised speed on an approved motherboard with proper RAM right? Your example is not even close to being a questionable RMA. If anyone argues with you or Crucial denied you claim I personally would look at the person or Crucial with less respect.

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champdog

Member

296 messages 0 likes

I don't think its wrong to RMA something you break IF it was broken while you were using the product for what it was supposed to be used for, and you set it up by the book.

For example, I had an NF7-S and I installed it and I had it running over night and when I woke up in the morning, it stopped working. I did everything the manual said to do when I was setting up the board and I didn't overclock or anything. Even though it didn't arrive broken, I feel that it was okay for me to RMA it even though it could possibly have been my fault (I still can't figure out what happened).

So I disagree that if your product works when you get, you shouldn't RMA it.

I also agree that if what you buy doesn't perform as advertised, you can RMA it.

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Avatar of zachj
zachj

Chainsaw Senior

1,708 messages 0 likes

With that particular example, I don't think your method of setting it up was appropriate. The first time you set up a new board, you should run it at stock speeds for a few days, not only to "burn it in" (to whatever extent it can be burned it), but also to reveal flaws (like it's broken, or doing a certain thing does something strange). If you immediately overclocked it after having set it up and then left it all night, then I think that it's likely that it was your fault. I guess it might not be, but we'll never know. If you didn't overclock it, and it was running at stock speeds overnight and then just didn't work the next morning, then you got a bum piece of equipment. Just because it works immediately after initial power-up doesn't mean it's going to work for the next few years.

If the box clearly advertises 200MHz FSB and your components are known to work at that frequency, but the board won't go, then the manufacturer is responsible. I know that happened with some of the NForce2 boards . . . It's completely within your rights to RMA it, although it's not exactly "broken" just because it doesn't overclock well. But the manufacturer needs to back up its claims.

Z

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