AHCI, RAID, or IDE configurations?

[PolePosition]

I'm wondering which configuration is best to use with Windows 7 Pro (or 8) when performing a clean install of a new OS. Granted, the AHCI appears to be the newer configuration offering more speed and data transfer while RAID has been around much longer yet offers more reliability in terms of data mirroring/imaging for fault tolerance in the event of drive failure or data corruption, which no one wants to see happen. Of course data backups to web servers or external drives provides a total solution to this, but can be more time consuming when large program and data files need to be restored.

There is just not a whole lot of discussion on this as if it is common knowledge, so articles on the subject (when searched for) don't really give much detailed information or tips on how to implement any one selection. For example, I just finished a new rig which POST and decided I wanted to create a RAID 1 array on a Marvel controller, which allows two drives to connect. I connected one SSD and one HDD. The manual instructed me to copy the driver to a flash drive (from another computer) and load the driver when installing the Windows 7 Pro OS. I'm assuming these two drives (SSD/HDD) are now combined in an array to make up the "C" drive, and any other drives connected to other SATA ports will get assigned a new drive letter?? Such as my ODD connected to a 3GB port gets assigned driver letter "D". At least this is how the drives appear in Windows Explorer, and I can't load any applications on the HDD.

Anyway, this is something noobs like myself need to learn, especially when one has not installed many if any OSs before, and the Microsoft knowledge base is useless on this subject.

Any tips or advice is truly appreciated.

 

[EarthDog]

Its pretty common these days to set it to AHCI to utilize modern drives functionality. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHCI

RAID is used for multiple drives of the same size and type. So unless you have that, RAID isnt an option for you. What you tried to do is not good at all. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

IDE is an older standard and should be used with older drives that do not support AHCI. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA#IDE_and_ATA-1

 

[PolePosition]

Its pretty common these days to set it to AHCI to utilize modern drives functionality.

"Many SATA controllers offer selectable modes of operation: legacy Parallel ATA emulation, standard AHCI mode, or vendor-specific RAID (which generally enables AHCI in order to take advantage of its capabilities). Intel recommends choosing RAID mode on their motherboards (which also enables AHCI) rather than AHCI/SATA mode for maximum flexibility"

It appears though, one can have the best of both worlds (or configuration).

I'm thinking about moving the 600GBHDD on the Marvel controller to a separate 6GB controller and adding a 150GB HDD to the Marvel controller with the 120GB SSD. I'm not sure how/why/if this would work and what the disadvantages/advantages would be.

Currently, the OS is loaded in AHCI mode with the SSD and HDD connected to the Marvel controller, but only my SSD shows up in Windows Explorer. The HDD is listed in devices, so I'm assuming it is just there for looks/storage/cache without the ability to load apps with no volume listed. No drive letter assigned to it. I deleted the RAID array and formatted the drive before loading the OS without any RAID drivers/controllers. This is what has me more confused than anything.

 

[EarthDog]

Please create a signature with your system specs please. I have no idea what kind of system(motherboard) you have.

That said, assuming you are rocking Intel, you should be connected to the Intel SATA3(6Gbps) ports for the SSD as the Marvell controller will neuter performance.

If you did not set it up as a cache drive, then its not a cache drive. How big is your SSD and HDD? Does it show the size of the HDD in explorer?

 

[PolePosition]

Create a signature? I don't see any "Create signature" button, not here, not in my profile either. Excuse me for being a bit dumb and unfamilar with this forum. I see where members have their systems listed where the item text is one color while the specs are white text. How does one do that?
Thanks

 

[Knufire]

The quick links menu moved a bit, its in between the light gray bar and the top advertisement.

 

[PolePosition]

Please create a signature with your system specs please. I have no idea what kind of system(motherboard) you have.

Sabertooth X79
i73820 @3.60 GHz
Intel RTS2011LC CPU cooler
32 MB RAM GSkills 1600 DDR3
Intel 120GB SSD
Western Digital 10,000rpm 600GB HDD (Velociraptor)
Western Digital 10,000rpm 150GB HDD (Velociraptor)(soon to add)
ASUS DVD/CD ODD
Windows 7 Pro 64bit OS
Lian li PC-V750 case

That said, assuming you are rocking Intel, you should be connected to the Intel SATA3(6Gbps) ports for the SSD as the Marvell controller will neuter performance.

I thought the Marvell controller was supposed to be my faster port and the ASUS manual says to connect one SSD and one HDD for high speed caching. I'm not trying to be "rocking" Intel, but rather just exploring my options for the best performance. I don't see how Marvel "neuters" performance, so a little more indepth explanation would be appreciated.

If you did not set it up as a cache drive, then its not a cache drive. How big is your SSD and HDD? Does it show the size of the HDD in explorer?

Any advice how to set this up would be nice and no, the size of the HDD is not listed in Explorer. Only the device and model/serial number in devices.

 

[Knufire]

Rocking Intel means that you're running an Intel board, lol.

3rd party controllers are a "middle man", anything added in between the port and your CPU is going to introduce some form of latency or overhead calculations. The fastest ports are going to be the ones directly linked to your CPU, not the Marvall ones.

If you want to run the SSD as a cache drive, you're going to have to reinstall Windows. http://download.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/intel_smart_response_technology_user_guide.pdf

That being said, since you have a 120GB drive, your probably better off using it as a boot drive. This just means that you'll have to manually change the install directory when you install programs to make sure they reside on the drive you want them to.

To get your hard drive to show up in explorer to use as storage, you'll need to format it.
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows7/ht/partition-hard-drive-windows-7.htm

 

[PolePosition]

3rd party controllers are a "middle man", anything added in between the port and your CPU is going to introduce some form of latency or overhead calculations. The fastest ports are going to be the ones directly linked to your CPU, not the Marvall ones.

I guess this means I should connect my OS drive to the two "black" SATA III 6G ports on my motherboard? Since what you say there is no documentation that clarifies which ports are directly closest to the CPU. Below the two black ports are 4 "brown"SATA III 3G ports, and below that are the two "gray" Marvell 6G ports, which I would think be faster than the 3g "brown" ports.

If you want to run the SSD as a cache drive, you're going to have to reinstall Windows.

I'm planning on reinstalling Windows anyway since I want to move the 600 GB HDD to the "black" 6G port from the Marvel port, but where should I move the SSD to use as a cache drive? Or should I leave it connected to the Marvell port and put the 120 GB HDD in the other free "black" 6G port?

That being said, since you have a 120GB drive, your probably better off using it as a boot drive. This just means that you'll have to manually change the install directory when you install programs to make sure they reside on the drive you want them to.

Since the previous is required, then manually changing the directory is probably unnecessary?


To get your hard drive to show up in explorer to use as storage, you'll need to format it. [/QUOTE]
How to do this in Windows 7 Pro? Or is this unnecessary as well since I'll be reinstalling Windows?

 

[Knufire]

1. You don't have to reinstall Windows to move the hard drives and SSDs from port to port.
2. You'll get better performance out of the SSD by using it as a boot drive rather than a cache drive. The cache drive a bit like the lazy way out, letting the computer handle what goes on the SSD vs doing it yourself. Since you have a big SSD, there's no reason that you need the computer to micromanage what goes on, you have plenty of space to use.
3. Performance wise, it doesn't really matter where the HDD is since it's not even as fast as SATA II. Moving it off the Marvall controller and disabling the Marvall controller in the BIOS might shave a second or two off your boot time, but that's it.

 

[EarthDog]

PoleP -

Read your manual for which ports are the Intel ports.

+1 for NOT using your SSD as a cache drive. Its big enough to put Windows and a lot of apps on it. The cache thing is generally for smaller drives like 60GB or less.

+1 again for the HDD location as the marvell ports will not slow them down, ssd yes, hdd, no.

 

[PolePosition]

1. You don't have to reinstall Windows to move the hard drives and SSDs from port to port.
2. You'll get better performance out of the SSD by using it as a boot drive rather than a cache drive. The cache drive a bit like the lazy way out, letting the computer handle what goes on the SSD vs doing it yourself. Since you have a big SSD, there's no reason that you need the computer to micromanage what goes on, you have plenty of space to use.
3. Performance wise, it doesn't really matter where the HDD is since it's not even as fast as SATA II. Moving it off the Marvall controller and disabling the Marvall controller in the BIOS might shave a second or two off your boot time, but that's it.

In an earlier post, you suggested using the IRST driver by Intel, but to use that technology, the BIOS must be set from AHCI to RAID mode, and currently I'm in AHCI mode. I made the mistake of creating a RAID 1 array in the Marvell utility but discovered later after several OS installs I forgot to switch to RAID mode before installing the OS along with the flash disk RAID drivers, which caused boot failure. BEFORE discovering my mistake, I just installed the OS without the RAID drivers to a 60GB partition on the SSD, rendering the other 60GB useless, which was my 2nd mistake. So now I'm most likely stuck with wiping the SSD clean and starting over to recapture lost disk space, like almost 10GBs. Not only that, I am stuck in AHCI mode and when I boot, the Marvell RAID utility pops up showing my SSD and 600GB HDD, although I deleted the RAID array.

I'm still looking for a setup solution (from scratch) to connecting my drives and if I should go with AHCI or RAID. One says use the Marvell ports while another says use the other 2 SATA III 6G ports, which are supposedly closer to my CPU. The manual doesn't disclose which port is closer, and I thought they were all Intel ports since its an Intel board and chipset.

 

[Knufire]

Gotcha, here we go. This is how most people here would run a SSD/HDD setup. It's a little more effort on the users part, as you have to manually select the install directory for every program you install, but it gives you full control of what goes on the SSD and what goes on the HDD:

1. Disconnect all drives (anything SATA, even if it isn't a hard drive/SSD)
2. Go into the BIOS, disable the Marvall controller. Set SATA mode on all other ports to AHCI.
3. Plug in ONLY the SSD into a Black 6Gb/s port.
4. Install Windows on the SSD. When choosing what partition to install to, delete ALL partitions on the SSD and select the entire, unformatted SSD to install Windows on.
5. Once your booted and in Windows, plug the HDD back in (don't have to shut down first, hot-swapping is one of those features that AHCI has over IDE mode).
6. Start Menu --> Computer --> Right Click --> Manage --> Disk Managment (in the list on the left hand side) --> Find your HDD --> Right click --> New simple volume (something like that, can't check because I'm on OSX right now). Format it as NFTS. It should now pop up in My Computer as a separate empty drive, like a brand new flash drive would.

 

[PolePosition]

Thanks Knufire, I'll do that, plug the SSD and 600GB HDD into the black ports, but where should I plug the 150GB drive into? I suspect the Marvel controller?
I'll probably take the SSD to someone and get it wiped clean, since formatting alone won't do that plus the option to burn a boot disk to wipe it clean is not possible. I just want to get totally rid of any RAID drivers that might be on the system.

 

[Knufire]

Plug nothing into the Marvall controllers. Make sure the SSD is on a black port. HDD can be on the other black port or any of the brown ports, doesn't matter.

Why can't you burn a boot disk to wipe it clean?

 

[PolePosition]

Plug nothing into the Marvall controllers. Make sure the SSD is on a black port. HDD can be on the other black port or any of the brown ports, doesn't matter.

Why can't you burn a boot disk to wipe it clean?

Well, I guess I could go ahead and download a disk cleaner to a flash drive on this notebook, pop it into my new rig, and use the DVD burner on it to create a boot disk to wipe the drive clean before I do what you say since the new rig is running.

Also, I might want to go ahead and update my BIOS with 2 new updates before I go changing settings. One of the updates is a CAP converter, which changes the BIOS file extension for ROM to CAP, which is done first and have the system boot a couple of times. Then update the BIOS with the new CAP extension to be up to date before doing anything else. What do you think? Will this change anything in the Marvell controller? I just want to be certain I get rid of those RAID driver files.

I hear RAID is good for killing bugs. lol, maybe the real ones but not so much the virtual ones. lol

 

[PolePosition]

Gotcha, here we go. This is how most people here would run a SSD/HDD setup. It's a little more effort on the users part, as you have to manually select the install directory for every program you install, but it gives you full control of what goes on the SSD and what goes on the HDD:

1. Disconnect all drives (anything SATA, even if it isn't a hard drive/SSD)
2. Go into the BIOS, disable the Marvall controller. Set SATA mode on all other ports to AHCI.
3. Plug in ONLY the SSD into a Black 6Gb/s port.
4. Install Windows on the SSD. When choosing what partition to install to, delete ALL partitions on the SSD and select the entire, unformatted SSD to install Windows on.
5. Once your booted and in Windows, plug the HDD back in (don't have to shut down first, hot-swapping is one of those features that AHCI has over IDE mode).
6. Start Menu --> Computer --> Right Click --> Manage --> Disk Managment (in the list on the left hand side) --> Find your HDD --> Right click --> New simple volume (something like that, can't check because I'm on OSX right now). Format it as NFTS. It should now pop up in My Computer as a separate empty drive, like a brand new flash drive would.

It should, but it didn't, and why would you suggest not formatting the SSD before installing Windows? There was a previous install there and the system kept trying to boot from that. Finally, I got the ODD to boot and load the Windows setup program, upon which I deleted all partitions to recapture the whole drive. Formatting with Windows 7 (or Vista) now does a write zero format function to erase all traces of previous files (or so I read on About.com "wiping a HDD").

Perhaps I might need to "activate" my copy of Windows in order to get full function of Windows where the drives will show up in "Devices". I would just rather get the rig setup right with my software (internet security/anti-virus) installed before connecting to the internet and activation. At least the HDD was showing up before when it was connected at the time of installing Windows.

 

[Knufire]

You can mash delete or F12 or F10 (depends what motherboard you have) and manually select what device to boot from? You would want to boot from the Windows Install...not the SSD.

If you delete all partitions on the SSD and tell Windows to install to unformatted space, it will format it during the install.

You have 30 days from installation to activate Windows. NO features are withheld during that 30 day grace period.

Sorry if I didn't make something clear. In step 4, plug in the SSD and the ODD if you need it. I normally install Windows off a flash drive, so I don't use the ODD.

 

[PolePosition]

You can mash delete or F12 or F10 (depends what motherboard you have) and manually select what device to boot from? You would want to boot from the Windows Install...not the SSD.

If you delete all partitions on the SSD and tell Windows to install to unformatted space, it will format it during the install.

You have 30 days from installation to activate Windows. NO features are withheld during that 30 day grace period.

Sorry if I didn't make something clear. In step 4, plug in the SSD and the ODD if you need it. I normally install Windows off a flash drive, so I don't use the ODD.

Still doesn't explain why my HDD isn't showing up in Windows devices, when I have checked and double check ALL connections. Even before I did another re-install after doing what you suggested, and before removing the drive to install windows, I pressed the F8 key and the HDD showed up, so I know it is NOT the motherboard or the connections. My motherboard is shown in my signature in every post.

 

[Knufire]

Does the HDD show up in disk management?