Considering replacing AMD 4200+ with Opty 165. Opinions??

[Bangwhiz]

If you still don´t have good mem, you´ll have to grab some good DDR500 ram in order to make the Opty 165 ¨dance¨ at 2.8 - 3Ghz

My motherboard is an Epox 9nPA+ Ultra with Nforce4. Currently running PC3200 DDR400. I don't know if board can run DDR500, plus I am a little confused by some ads I saw for DDR400/500. I'll try to learn about the board and any other insight you can offer would be helpful about DDR500 ram. Ram has dropped in price so I intended to upgrade the ram.

Motherboard spec is "4 DDR DIMM slots for dual-channel DDR400 SDRAM".

 

[Bangwhiz]

Turn the RAM down farther to 133 and make sure the HT Link is set to 3X. This time we're not trying to find the top end of the RAM or CPU but the top end of the board. You'll reach 300x8 before the RAM gets to 200 MHz. If the board will run that fast then an Opty 165 could run up to 2700 MHz - at least as far as the board itself goes. The CPU may not go that high but most of them do.

You're looking for a 0610, 0615, or 07xx for the production week (last four digits of the stepping). My great OC'ers are "CCBBE 0610" and "LCBQE 0711" ...

Ok, board is running 300 with no problems - and running Prime95 Stress Tests. Northbridge a little warm at 52C to 53C, but everything else o0k. Running 3 GB dual channel PC3200 ram (2 512's matched - two unmatched but toughly equivalent 1 GB sticks). Wanted to pull the two 512's but couldn't do it easily so I ran 300 FSB test with the RAM like it was. I decided to place a bid on Ebay for the chip I described just above. Kind if intrigued me.

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[crunchie]

If you can run 300 bus speed, you should consider getting DDR600 RAM. It will run it no problems. I have PC3200, PC3500, PC4000 and PC4800 and they all run fine.

 

[QuietIce]

I have an Opty 165 LCB9E 0704TPMW just like the chip you're looking at. Mine clocked over 2.9 GHz.

You really need to get better RAM, though. Running two single sticks that are exactly the same model isn't even the same as running a matched pair, so running two sticks that are "sort of" the same is no doubt what's causing your RAM slow-down. Running four sticks also effects how high you can OC the RAM. Best bet is to get a 2x1 Gb kit - the extra RAM speed will make up for the lower amount of RAM. I'm kind of 50/50 RAM rated over DDR-400. If you can find some with a CAS < 3 that would be fine but in my experience buying very good DDR-400 CAS 2 RAM works out just as well and doesn't have the added price. My personal favorite is Corsair XMS DDR-400 CAS 2 but I use ASUS boards ...

 

[Bangwhiz]

I have an Opty 165 LCB9E 0704TPMW just like the chip you're looking at. Mine clocked over 2.9 GHz.

You really need to get better RAM, though. Running two single sticks that are exactly the same model isn't even the same as running a matched pair, so running two sticks that are "sort of" the same is no doubt what's causing your RAM slow-down. Running four sticks also effects how high you can OC the RAM. Best bet is to get a 2x1 Gb kit - the extra RAM speed will make up for the lower amount of RAM. I'm kind of 50/50 RAM rated over DDR-400. If you can find some with a CAS < 3 that would be fine but in my experience buying very good DDR-400 CAS 2 RAM works out just as well and doesn't have the added price. My personal favorite is Corsair XMS DDR-400 CAS 2 but I use ASUS boards ...

That's encouraging about the chip. I found several similar overclocks with it like yours so I decided to bid. I hope my max bid holds up. I'll also take your advice on the RAM and see what I can find price-wise CAS < 3 versus good DDR 400. Same for the other RAM advice. I'll go price hunting and see what I can find.

What kind of RAM overclock speed (assuming 200 Mhz as normal) will I be trying to reach? I think the current cheap DDR400 RAM I have ran 235 Mhz during some early testing, probably with the 2 1 GB sticks.

 

[mjw21a]

Lol, I just got rid of my 165, never even overclocked it. Board wasn't stable with 4 sticks overclocked, only with two which dropped me down to 1GB.

 

[QuietIce]

That's encouraging about the chip. I found several similar overclocks with it like yours so I decided to bid. I hope my max bid holds up. I'll also take your advice on the RAM and see what I can find price-wise CAS < 3 versus good DDR 400. Same for the other RAM advice. I'll go price hunting and see what I can find.

What kind of RAM overclock speed (assuming 200 Mhz as normal) will I be trying to reach? I think the current cheap DDR400 RAM I have ran 235 Mhz during some early testing, probably with the 2 1 GB sticks.

My Corsair XMS RAM (DDR-400 2-3-2-6-1T) would run up to 265+ MHz when the timings were loosened to CAS 3, up to 224 MHz or so with the stock timings. For everyday use (to keep the heat down) I run the system at 246x11 with the RAM running 2.5-3-2-6-1T @ 246 MHz.

My file server's Opty 165 runs 322x9 (2898) @ 1.45v with Corsair XMS (same as above) running 3-4-4-8-1T @ 263 MHz ...

 

[Bangwhiz]

Well, from a dollars and cents viewpoint I am starting to run into a little bit of a wall. I am assuming I will eventually get a 165 and sell the 4200+ for a few dollars expense one way or the other - even if it was $30-$40 I am ok with it. I can get 2 GB of Corsair XMS RAM today on Newegg for $69.99 - but that starts to add some significant expense to messing with an old 939 board. I don't think I am going to have much luck selling the RAM I have (2 512's - 2 value 1 GB's). I'll have to decide about the ram after I try to overclock the 165 with the 2 1 GB sticks I have now and after I know what the 4200+ to 165 OPty swap cost me.

EDIT: How can I go ahead and test the existing ram for max speed. I know it will run 235, but if someone could give me some quick settings advice that will let me isolate on the RAM I would appreciate it. I would also like to know if I should test it with Memtest, or some other way?

Edit 2: Got the answers for testing RAM from the amd OVERCLOCKING 1-2-3 STICKY:

"2. Test the limits of your memory.

This time around we are going to rest the FSB to 200, set the FSB/HTT multiplier to 3x and leave the CPU at 6x. Go into the memory section of the bios and set the memory speed to 200mhz (1:1) this means that for every MHz you increase the FSB you increase the speed of the memory. Again leave the CPU at 6x so it does not become the bottleneck.

While in the memory section of the bios you should set it to your preferred timings, I'm not going to go into detail on how to overclock your memory. I generally set most things to auto for this part of the testing other than the main four timings (Tcl, Trcd, Tras, Trp).

Again we start testing by incrementing the FSB by 5MHz at a time. You can safely start off at the rated speed of your memory and rated timings if you want (ie. PC3500 at 215fsb). Use Memtest86+ for testing, I generally use 5 passes of test #5 and 5 passes of test #8 for a quick test, this does not mean its stable but it does mean its probably safe to continue on. If you start getting errors in either test you can either lower your timings or increase your voltage. TCCD based memory does better when you loosen timings, BH5/UTT does better when you increase voltage.

Always keep an eye on the bandwidth in the upper left hand corner of the screen this tells you if you improving or hurting your performance with the timings you have set. If for example you can hit 240fsb with 2-2-2-6 or 250fsb with 2.5-3-3-8 you may find that 240fsb gives you more bandwidth and is there for more desirable, so pay attention to this value and WRITE IT DOWN along with your timings that way you can find the best performance.

When you think you have found the limits of your memory let Memtest86+ run through at least 10 full passes of all tests. Again this does not mean its stable only that its most likely good enough to move on to step 3."

LATE EDIT: Got beat out by a buck over my max bid of $65.99 plus $10 shipping. Will try again when decent chip pops up. Two have gone for $50's + and $60 +. I'll find out how bad my memory is in the meantime.

 

[QuietIce]

Turn down the CPU multiplier, turn down the HT Link multiplier, leave the RAM at 1:1 (DDR-400, 200 MHz, or whatever your board shows) then start cranking up the clock ...

 

[Bangwhiz]

Turn down the CPU multiplier, turn down the HT Link multiplier, leave the RAM at 1:1 (DDR-400, 200 MHz, or whatever your board shows) then start cranking up the clock ...

Done. Running Memtest at 235 Mgz with just the two similar 1 GB sticks - RAM set to 200Mgz DDR400 - CAS 3 4 4 8 2T - Vdimm @ 2.8. So far so good. I'll let Memtest run for a good bit then continue going up in 5 Mgz increments. Any advice in case it starts choking?

 

[QuietIce]

Sometimes 3-5-5-10 timings can get you a few more MHz - it all depends on the RAM ...

 

[Bangwhiz]

Sometimes 3-5-5-10 timings can get you a few more MHz - it all depends on the RAM ...

Good Morning QuietIce. Bought an Opteron 165 for $70 total including shipping. Stepping is LCB9E. Has been overclocked before with these comments by previous owner: "The opty I was able to clock up to 2.94GHz (345*8.5). I got a SuperPi run out of it and it crashed shortly afterwards. As I found out later, I did this on a bad seat. There was only thermal paste across 3/4 of the IHS. The highest I ever got it stable was 2.85GHz (316*9). Again, on a bad seat. I did my best OC'ing at just over stock voltage. 1.37v. My mobo always ups the set FSB by ~1.2 MHZ, I dont know why. I also didnt have it on the best of PSU's (check my sig rig, its the same one). So considering this, there is always the possibility that this chip could get even closer to 3GHz and perhaps even exceed it. Stepping is: LCB9E, a good one."

Memory has passed 4 passes memtest386 at 240. Currently running memtest at 245 - same timings. I am surprised it has gone this far. We'll see. Be back in touch. Bang

EDIT: QUESTION: Am I going to have to reinstall Windows with processor change to OPTY 165 from 4200+?

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Nope. Just pull the old chip, reset the bios, put the new chip in, reset the bios and start 'er up!

 

[QuietIce]

All I ever did was swap chips - I don't even reset BIOS ...

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I have heard that works as well (and obviously it does) but I reset just to make sure.

 

[Bangwhiz]

All I ever did was swap chips - I don't even reset BIOS ...

Sweet! Thanks. OK - My two cheap 1 gb memory sticks (but with same timings) have run two passes of memtest386 at 250 Mhz with no errors. Failed at 255 Mhz, restarted test at vdimm 2.9, then decided against it since ram ran 250Mhz (DDR500) which is good enough. Knowing what we know about the board (passed 320 - tested today), Memory (passed 250) and previous overclock of 2.85 for the opty 165 I bought, I suppose I could start at previous chip owners overclock of 2.85GHz (316*9). What do you think QuietIce?

EDIT: I hate to say it, but it looks like my memory may hold me back. Looking at the Toledo overclock results I found two that got my attention:

OSA180DAA6CD CCBWE 0541 RPMW 2805 MHz (255.0 x11.0) 1.52 V memory 255 MHz 3.0-3-2- 6 1T 2.80 V LDT x4.0 (QuietIce) details
OSA170DAA6CD CCBWE 0546 XPMW 2600 MHz (260.0 x10.0) 1.45 V memory 185 MHz 2.0-4-4- 8 1T 2.60 V LDT x3.0 (runsalone) details

250 is probably the limit of my RAM, but maybe lossening timing, upping vdimm might help, but it is going to be pushing it to say the least. If I set bios to 290x10, what ram speed and HT settings will keep RAM at 250 or less? Math challenged.

It looks to me (with the memory I have now) like I should set memory to 133 to start, HT to 3, FSB anywhere from 280 to 320 starting at 280 for openers, CPU Multiplier of 10. Is this correct?

My chipset has always been hard to cool. I have a Zalman passive chipset cooler now with a case fan mounted over it. Still runs warm. May decide to put an active cooler on it. At 320 FSB chipset was 53C. Case was open and I had a box fan sitting near it so I am running Prime95 test at 320 with box fan blowing into the open case . I also have a Kamabay front case CDROM slots fan installed. I could put a faster fan in that mother also - 800 CFM in it now. CPU cooler runs great - no problems. Any suggestions?

 

[QuietIce]

290x10 = 2900
2900/250 = 11.6
2900/12 = 242 MHz

With a 10X multiplier (and I assume you're considering your 4200 since the Opty 165 will only run 9X) you'd need a RAM limit of 166, which will give you a 12 divider (10 x 200/166.6666666666667).

If you're talking about the Opty 165 you're working with a 9X multiplier, which changes the numbers. At 316x9 you'd need to run the 133 RAM limit, which will yield a 14 divider and 203 MHz - and that's the best you can do. The next step (a 166 RAM limit) would be an 11 divider, which would give you a RAM speed of 259 MHz ...

 

[Bangwhiz]

290x10 = 2900
2900/250 = 11.6
2900/12 = 242 MHz

With a 10X multiplier (and I assume you're considering your 4200 since the Opty 165 will only run 9X) you'd need a RAM limit of 166, which will give you a 12 divider (10 x 200/166.6666666666667).

If you're talking about the Opty 165 you're working with a 9X multiplier, which changes the numbers. At 316x9 you'd need to run the 133 RAM limit, which will yield a 14 divider and 203 MHz - and that's the best you can do. The next step (a 166 RAM limit) would be an 11 divider, which would give you a RAM speed of 259 MHz ...

Thanks QuietIce. I didn't know the Opty had a 9X multiplier limit. So, given my current RAM, is the best overclock I can get with the Opty 165 316x9=2844 right, with HT set to 3, ram at 133 = (133/200)*316=210 Mhz, or is it 203Mhz? Any reason I can't keep pushing the FSB up beyond 316 if the box and CPU will run it? I have tested the board up to 320 and it should be capable of running higher - ran 320 without a hitch.

EDIT: I obviously don't understand the divider calculation lol

EDIT 2: I understand the divider calc - after you calculate the divider number what do you do with it? hmmmmm......? OK - I got it, divide the CPU speed (9x316) by 14=203. So that's the way I have to overclock the Opty 165 given my ram limitations. 320*9=2880/14=205 for RAM speed. To hit a CPU speed of 2.9Ghz I would need FSB of 323Mhz - 3 more Mhz than already tested. For 3 Ghz I would need a FSB speed of about 334 Mhz with a 9X multiplier - but with an HT of link of 3 I suppose 333 is the FSB max right?

Chip is being shipped out Monday and should have it sometime next week. Going to pull the 4200+ chip and get it out of the way early next week. I'll wait until the Opty 165 is installed and running before listing it on Ebay.

EDIT 3: Tested mobo at 333 FSB and ran fine - tested with Prime95 until I got bored. I think my homework is finished. Now for the dang 165 to get here. Where's my CPU paste? lol

Pulled the Kamabay Front Slots CDROM fan and put bigger, faster fan in it. Bolting another spare fan on the case vents. Also bought a new chipset cooler - Thermaltake. Altogether should solve my cooling issues.

 

[crunchie]

Nice tool here that will help with your calculations.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49898

 

[Bangwhiz]

Nice tool here that will help with your calculations.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49898

Thanks! Pretty cool. I'll play with it tomorrow and read the thread in detail. Put that mother on my desktop. Neat.

Edit: My Mobo has a ram speed of like 183 that wasn't in the drop down menu list in the calculator.