New Waterblock!!!

[gone_fishin]

He quoted water 4c above ambient. With the water at 25c. This would be in his words 21c ambient either inside the case or outside the case.

I stand corrected, now I see what you are refering to.
Whether it is inside or out of the case, the reading should be taken at the rad air intake with a probe placed just off the rad not touching it. Placement of the rad is not important but placement of the probe is.

 

[DorrellCO]

I still havn't arrived at the conclusion as to why the ambient is important here. If you can measure the water temp continuously and the CPU temp continuously who cares what the ambient is?

If you start at 1600mhz at 2.0Cvore and measure water and CPU

then

1700mhz at 2.0V and measure water and CPU

then 1800mhz 2.0V and measure water and CPU

then 1900mhz 2.0V and measure water and CPU

I would think you should be able to come up with a reasonable set of data for the block with the ambient not needed. This is of course if the water temps drop and rise evenly with ambient temps swings. I can't think of why they wouldn't but I am not to wise in this area.

Now if you where testing the whole system then several ambient temp probes would be needed. One for the room outside the case, one for the airflow into the rad, one for the air flow out of the rad, one for temps inside the case (if there is one). That way you can monitor the temp swings in the water from changing ambient temps and monitor the airtemp through the rad vrs changing room temps.

Then for the water you would want one on the inlet(s) of the block, one on the outlet(s) of the block, one for the CPU, one on the outlet(s) of the rad, one on the inlet(s) of the rad, one on the inlet of the pump(s), one on the outlet of the pump(s), and if there was a res then one on the inlet(s) and one on the outlet(s). Then to top it off a flow meter with a way to adjust flow! Of course these probes need to be of a higher quality than the $10 ones at K/Wall-Mart to make the temps really worthwhile.

If I was to try and go commercial with my blocks and work on better models I would probably start with that setup. But being I am not...... And being Mask has only 6? of these made does it really matter all that much? When/if he gets 600 made then a more comprehinsive test would be expected. Of course I don't see to many people hammering Danger Den and other manufactures for this info.

Non the less the block is a nice peice of work. Would like to see one in a center inlet. And maybe some microchannels under the center inlet. Or maybe a turbulator of somekind through the middle part. maybe something like Dodge Viper did with the T-4. Just thoughts for future experiments....

Well thats my thoughts, right, wrong or indifferent. Probably more on the wrong side as usuall though!

 

[Cathar]

Hmmm, placement of the probes is important, but it's all still meaningless as a comparison of waterblock performance between different systems. Each motherboard/CPU is different. Even if they're different by only 1 or 2C, that's enough to eliminate all hope of doing any form of reliable cross-system comparison.

One simply cannot make judgement of waterblock performance by asking maskedgeek what his temperatures are. Even if he stated every single temperature at multiple locations, what he states will still be meaningless as a form of strict comparison.

If maskedgeek managed to obtain a commercial waterblock like a Maze 3, lap it dead flat with 600-grit sandpaper using kerosene and a hard flat surface (marble/float glass), and mounted it religiously and with as much care as he would for taking measurements with his own block, measured all the temperatures for all the bits of the system while ensuring as consistent of a test environment as possible between the different blocks, then he might be able to post some data that has some value.

Simply stating temperatures on their own in a casual testing environment with no other data from another known waterblock on the same testbed and under the exact same conditions gives absolutely no indication by which anyone can make a judgement as to performance.

 

[DodgeViper]

I understand every system is different. All I am asking is how his system is performing with his block.

Even a die tester like BillA uses tells the viewer/reader how well one block compares to another block, but what it does not tell is the variables used when deciding what equipment to buy. The best block score from a die tester may or may not perform better if the water block is not matched properly with the other components.

Cathar, even over at your home forum you make a reference about someone who has your latest block talking about his cpu temps, and you make a statement about his ambient temps. CLICK Your statement at this thread suggests that the temps he got were controlled by ambient.

All I am asking is to see the data that contains to MASK system not asking him to compare his block to another block. Granted I understand the rad/fans play a part.

If someone is going to make a sound judgment in purchasing a block somewhere, somehow, data has to be put forward on the given block. You don't go buy a car without having a good understanding how it performs. I know I don't.

 

[Cathar]

Of course ambient is important.

Of course we want to know how it performs.

What I'm saying is that every testbed has its individual quirks. Regardless of what MG reports as his temperatures, unless he gives us another point of reference, how do we know that whatever temperatures he reports is going to be even remotely accurate or useful as a means for comparison?

If we want to compare it to cars, it's like saying your new car engine has a power output of 250, but not stating the units used. Is it horsepower? Is it kilowatts? Who knows? There's no common point of reference by which to qualify that number with. If we throw in a car of known engine power rating and state that under the same testbed that car measured a power output of 275, we now have something by which to go by.

We all want data, but more importantly for any consumer, we want useful data. I'm just saying that on a system of completely unknown calibration how can any value that system reports be useful?

 

[gone_fishin]

Like someone suggested before. Where was all of DangerDen's or Dtek's data for all of their blocks when they were released or even today after selling them for a long long time. The answer is that they released squat. I think you should lay off of the masked one here and stop trying to get him to publish numbers that you can try to discredit. If the Spiral, TC-4, and Mazes keep a cpu cool enough to overclock, I am sure maskedgeek's block will fair right in there with them. They are all of the same type of design and he stated that the baseplate is kept thin in the channels.

 

[DodgeViper]

Can’t you make a statement using this method,

My system consist of these components, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, mounted in this arrangement x, x, x, x, yelled these temps, x, x, x, x, x, x, under these conditions, x, x, x, x, x, x, x. You may or may not receive the same results, but its data I collected that may be of some use.

 

[gone_fishin]

You were making specific claims of a measurable increase with them curlycues. Maskedgeek made a block and is not claiming a specific amount of degrees celcius increase in performance over anything. You asked for the difference and that is how I see it. Have you asked dtek repeatedly for performance numbers? And if you did do you think they would give them to you?

 

[SemiCycle]

Can’t you make a statement using this method,

My system consist of these components, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, mounted in this arrangement x, x, x, x, yelled these temps, x, x, x, x, x, x, under these conditions, x, x, x, x, x, x, x. You may or may not receive the same results, but its data I collected that may be of some use.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but most people do post their results by filling in the X's above. Everyone knows if you put a block in a different environment, it will perform differently, but normally those results do scale with other peoples results. I don't think asking for some temps and environment settings is a bad thing.

After reading a video card review, I know I also want to know the CPU, Motherboard, Memory type, Video settings, Ram timings, Hard Drive, driver version, etc. If I go out and buy the video card, I know I'm not going to get the EXACT same peformance, but at least I will have a general idea of what to expect.

 

[Cathar]

Hmmm, I think people have misinterpreted my intention here.

I am actually trying to defend MG. I am not out to discredit anyone. All this waterblock research is good.

I just saw people here badgering MG for results, when really those results would mean little anyway without a common point of reference.

Dodge, I am not being hypocritical here, which seems to be what you're suggesting. Back on my "home forums" as you put it (not that I actually have a "home forum"), everyone who has posted results has done so by making a comparison to a well known block that the person posting the results owns.

I'm all for people posting results, but moreso, I'm all for people posting results that people can use, that's all.

 

[JFettig]

thanx cathar and gone_fishin, im not gonna add any more usless comment to this post...

 

[Miknow]

Im in where do I pay I need 3 nice work indeed

 

[JFettig]

well first of all, i have NOTHING to compare to... i wont bother telling much more, someone like thespyder or Iron Hawk will have to tell you that when they get their blocks

 

[DorrellCO]

How is the consumer going to make a sound decision if you can not show some data how well your blocks perform?

Consumer making a sound decision? Not likely. People paid hundres more for P4 (when the P4's sucked) system over faster AMD systems for example. They will use the same thought process you took in buying the T-4 with no data from them on how it performs. Just like the hundreds of peeps that buy Danger Dens, becooling's, CPUFX's, ect..., blocks. If people where dependent on the data non of these places would be in business right now. Most people that buy these blocks wouldn't know what to do with the data if they saw it anyway. You have to remember the people in all these forums are a very small % of the actual buying public which know jack about what temps are good and what isn't. If it looks good to them and they can drop the cash it is sold data or not. This is why all this accurate measurment BS is not going to do much good to the majority of the people buying this stuff and it is also why block manufactures stay in business. Luckily most block makers have enough pride to atleast make a good attemp at making the blocks work decently and the buyer is not going to go to worng no matter what choice he/she makes unlike other products in the market place.

I here you about wanting the data but it just isn't worth it to the manufacture to spend all the time money and energy setting this up if the majority of their customers wouldn't know what to do with the data. Just a waste of time for them. They are in it to make a living not make the ultamate block ever.

 

[#Rotor]

very well put indeed

 

[JML]

Everyone- Watch the personal attacks
We all know the rules, so I'm not going to reiterate them here.

 

[DodgeViper]

DorrellCO, I don't think you are giving much credit to your fellow members. I do believe if their in these forums their searching for answers to improving their system. Why else would the average user come to this point of overclocking? Simple, their in search of lowering their temps, and raising their computing power, whether for gaming or crunching numbers.

 

[JFettig]

ya know, it sounds like you want to do the testing yourself
YGPM

 

[JFettig]

actually im gonna be selling these, i havent gotten the chance to do all the testing and crap,
yes your rite frodo

 

[JFettig]

yep all of them, I havent shipped yet, i gotta get a diff sealant the stuff i have discolors the surface of the copper.
i mite have 1 extra...