Best bet would be to test his TRUE120 on a different system. Idealy a system that currently has a TRUE120 installed on it, and that the load temperatures are "where they should be" for this HS. It would be great to see Spawne32 test this HS out. Since he has already done a heatsink round up, and the oringial TRUE120 he benchmarked scored highly against the others tested.
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Requested proof of Thermalright quality control issues
- Thread starter Notlag
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #262
What is it you think I did wrong lapping my CPU? OH! WAIT! That's right... Temps got -better- with the 1st heatsinks after I lapped the CPU, so...
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- May 19, 2006
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And no, you shouldn't need a 150CFM fan to get the job done. People have gotten better temps in the past with slower fans then 75CFM.
I know what you said. And you have no evidence what so ever that it was not lapped properly. Just more assumptions from you.
I know what you said. And you have no evidence what so ever that it was not lapped properly. Just more assumptions from you.
- Thread Starter
- #264
There are almost no variations in testing...
1. I mounted a TR U120X, I got the temps in the OP.
2. I took it off and mounted a Maxorb. I got the temps in the OP that were only 1C warmer than the TR U120X.
3. I received a replacement TR U120X, took off the Maxorb, and mounted the new TR U120X. I got the temps in my earlier post - about 3C to 4C lower when ambient temps were taken into account.
It doesn't matter what I did before the 1st test (like lapping) in terms of comparing those three heatsinks, because nothing changed between test 1 and test 3 except for the heatsinks.
- Thread Starter
- #265
Again... The lapping improved the temps I received on the 1st heatsink. Therefore the lapping did not harm the temps. Also, that lapping was before the 2nd heatsink, which is the one in the OP of this thread, so there is no variation between the tests in this thread.
I don't have pics w/ a razorblade or flashlight, but I have posted additional pics. You can see there is no major warping in the image to indicate uneveness. I will volunteer that the edges are -slightly- rounded off because of the motion I used while lapping (technically this process is not called lapping btw, but ok), but the entire contact area of the CPU is extremely flat (and does well w/ the "screendoor" test as well).
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- Jan 26, 2005
Oh nothing changed between 1 & 3 but your ambient temps. 3 to 4 c change in ambient IS NOT equilivent to a 3 to 4 c change in load temps. Ambient changes then they tests are not comparable.
- Thread Starter
- #267
Erm. Actually, all other variables excluded, the way heat is transferred, a change in ambient temps results in an identical change in load temps. Either way, the 3rd heatsink managed a 1C improvement in temps despite a 3C increase in fan inlet temperature, so no matter how you cut it, it's better than the original two, but not a ton better.
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- Aug 23, 2006
You should still send the heatsink to a respectable user on the forums for them to test. Only then, can this whole thing be cleared.
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I'd just like to say 2 things..
1: I don't think notlag deserves the tihs that he has had over this, a customer pays and a customer expects to get.
2: My u120e wasn't great, the pipes are fine i think, but i lapped it and gained a 7c drop, the base was very convex with machine lines in a cross pattern.
I'm not saying it was junk as it dropped my cpu from 72c to 55c at 3.4ghz.
I then wound the CPU up to 3.7ghz and hit 70c, after lapping i now have 63c.
1: I don't think notlag deserves the tihs that he has had over this, a customer pays and a customer expects to get.
2: My u120e wasn't great, the pipes are fine i think, but i lapped it and gained a 7c drop, the base was very convex with machine lines in a cross pattern.
I'm not saying it was junk as it dropped my cpu from 72c to 55c at 3.4ghz.
I then wound the CPU up to 3.7ghz and hit 70c, after lapping i now have 63c.
sounds like yours was working perfectly
thats exactly the kind of temps i would expect with a TRUE and you wont get that with anything else.
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sounds like yours was working perfectly
but i had to lap it to get there, also i put a 5p under the base for a firmer fit
i was talking about both sets of temps, they are exactly normal as far as im concerned, you guys really cant expect miracles out of air cooling here.
- Thread Starter
- #273
I admit the temps on my first two heatsinks were higher than I was expecting, but I'm not expecting miracles to expect than a U120X should outperform a Maxorb by a fair margin. If the Maxorb had done much worse than the U120X I would have looked for some other source of my high temps, but it didn't do much worse at all, in fact it nearly tied the U120X. The third heatsink is definitely better (4C improvement is not trivial), but I'm certainly not blown away by the temps I get out of it.
I'm not going to hassle Thermalright farther though - it's not worth it at this point. Now I just need to decide whether to keep this heatsink and those temps, order a Tuniq to try it against (anyone care to wager the Tuniq does at least as well as this 3rd heatsink?), or watercool (very unlikely - too much cost to overclock an E4300).
- Thread Starter
- #275
Some of it will depend on what I decide to do from this point. If I do purchase a Tuniq or something else then I won't miss my U120X, but I'm a bit anxious to stop futzing with my PC. If I send out the U120X w/o replacing it then I have to wait to finalize my OC (I'm intending on bringing my E4300 up to whatever OC I can get w/o having to go over 1.5V provided I can keep my core temps under 70C on TAT), have to wait to cut my side panel window (because I also have to cut the hole for the side inlet fan, and the location of that fan depends on my final heatsink decision), have to wait on my final system build (I'm not doing my final OS install and installing all my games / apps until I'm done w/ finalizing the OC because I've previously seen things corrupted in the past when an OC was unstable), etc... Point being, I want to start putting my PC to real use
- Thread Starter
- #276
I think his offer is to prove or disprove it. At this point there's not really anything further to question about my methodology or mounting, but one way to eliminate my rig from the equation altogether is try it in another rig. He did do a nice review of quite a few heatsinks over at OCPulse and while I really didn't care for his tone in some of his early posts (like he probably didn't care for my thread subject), I think he's been moderate since and I think his offer to test the heat sink is honest enough. No need to accuse him of wanting to skew the results.
That said, suggestions like rotating the heatsink do little to explain the major gap in performance (and I'm not singling out Spawne32 here). Even on the 3rd heatsink the delta is still like 37C, which is HUGE on a dual-core that's not over-volt'd. Rotating only improved the delta to 35C, which is still huge. Bear in mind the first two heatsinks were even worse and I'm running a fairly high CFM fan (79 CFM and fairly well rated).
Other suggestions like the die / IHS interface being bad also miss the point because the Maxorb nearly tied with the first couple U120X's when it should have done much worse (ie - if the die / IHS interface was bad, or something else w/ my rig, then it would affect both heatsinks, not just the U120X).
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- Jan 11, 2007
He has every right to reply in the thread. You seem to be the only person arguing here (in a negative way)
What makes you so important with this thread again? More important that you should be able to post, and Spawne shouldn't? I don't remember.
The reason NotLag posted this, was to get this resolved. Not to argue. Seems thats all you want to do.
"I will bet anything, if you were to test his HSF you would rig the test/s just to make your self look better"
Thats one of the most childish things I have seen said on this board.
I'm not gonna feed you with more reasons to argue, so you can ignore this if you like.
Anyways, I too would be curious what Spawne's results with that HS would be. He has had ALOT of experience with all kinds of HS'S, including the TR120UE.
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- Nov 15, 2005
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ya ok after 3 heatsinks, with the same results... its something else becides the heatsinks... namely the chip your using, get a different chip and stop complaining about the thermalright heatsinks man. I mean have you even tried the heatsink on a different cpu?
- Thread Starter
- #280
Yah, I'll give it some thought. The bigger issue to me is being without a heatsink for the duration and having to put everything off longer. Even if my heatsink ended up doing as well as the test TR U120X in your OCPulse review, I'd be at a complete loss to explain it:
1. Actual air flow within my case is a non-issue because the side panel was removed. Even if the side panel was not on, my case does have negative pressure and the rear fans are close-by to exhaust hot air from the case.
2. High fan inlet air temperature is no longer an issue because I rotated the heatsink (no longer pulling air over the GPU and NB)
3. Have tried various amounts and methods of applying the thermal compound (which isn't rocket science)
4. Air flow over the heatsink is good - I'm using a fairly high output fan that is well regarded (ie - not like a generic fan or TT or something)
5. My original heatsink performed better after lapping the CPU, so I know the CPU was not lapped badly
6. Mounting pressure is more than adequate - I've tried using washers to increase mounting pressure w/ no change
7. Issues w/ the CPU could explain overall high temps, but do nothing to explain the first two heatsinks essentially performing the same as a Maxorb
Despite this, I'm still looking at delta's of 35C with an E4300 @ 9 x 333MHz, 1.325v
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