SOLVED SSD caching or no? Is there a compromise possible?

[Seiphyr]

Hi, I’m new here,

and I would like to know if the drive configuration I plan to do on my first self-build computer makes sense. I would really love it if it worked!


Some of my Xwares:

One 64GB Crucial M4
One 2TB WD Caviar Black
Asus P8Z68 Deluxe motheboard
Windows 7 Ultimate


Setup

A SSD partitioned in 2: one partition for the OS alone (I plan 30GB), and another one for the SSD caching of a partitioned HDD (what remains, so approx. 34GB).

A HDD in 2 extended partitions. The first (500GB) for all my programs and games. I would also put the pagefile there to free some space out of my SSD (not hiberfil because I don’t need it and I will disable it anyway). This would obviously be the HDD I would use the Intel SRT on. And the second partition (1500GB), for all my data (documents, music, movies, etc).

And eventually, an external drive as backup for the HDD.


In my opinion, I suppose:

Having the OS alone on one drive with no other programs, makes the reinstallation easier if it fails. Now, I can even think about formatting my SSD and reinstalling the OS just for cleaning purposes without the pain of having to reinstall all of my programs.

I get the SSD speed for my OS, and almost as fast speed for the programs I frequently use.


So my questions are:

Is it possible?
I have already seen a comment about someone having done a SSD caching on a HDD without OS (the opposite supposedly necessary according to Intel. See this thread and the comment by ratbuddy. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677928

Also, I read that SRT is possible only for 1 SSD and 1 HDD or 1 SSD and 1 RAID Array (see the Intel Smart Response Technology User Guide, link too long to put here! ). Would the partition of my HDD prevent me from using the SSD caching feature?

Is it a suitable solution?
From my amateur DIY opinion, I don’t see much disadvantages about this, apart from:
1) Being a little bit more complex to set up than a conventional SSD for OS and programs, and HDD for data.
2) The possible increase wear rate of my SSD for using the SRT (severals writes and deletes) on a non-SLC SSD.


Great thanks for your enlightening opinions, but mostly, please tell me it will work!!!


Seiphyr

PS. My parts are coming soon!

 

[Theocnoob]

You are overcomplicating your system.

Choose one of the following and buy the parts for it if necessary (remember, this only my opinion).

1) Large HD ie, 2TB, and small SSD say 40GB to cache.

2) Option 1 AND a 120GB fast SSD as your main drive, using the SSD/cache combo from number one for mass storage.

3) Large HD, no SRT, and a 120 or 240GB fast SSD as main drive.

 

[Seiphyr]

You are overcomplicating your system.

Choose one of the following and buy the parts for it if necessary (remember, this only my opinion).

1) Large HD ie, 2TB, and small SSD say 40GB to cache.

2) Option 1 AND a 120GB fast SSD as your main drive, using the SSD/cache combo from number one for mass storage.

3) Large HD, no SRT, and a 120 or 240GB fast SSD as main drive.

Hi Theocnoob and thanks for your reply,

Your second option seems reasonable: 2 SSDs, one for cache and one for OS + programs. But there is 2 problems:
1) I just bought all the parts to build a nice setup from scratch (I only had a laptop before), and for now, I would like an option without having to excavate anymore into my budjet.
2) I like to play a lot of various games at a random time, from old to new (well eventually new ones with my new rig), and I don't want to have to be limited in space by even a 240 GB which would cost me a hefty price, not worth the result in my opinion (I don't really care if I wait for 5 seconds more (or is it more??) when starting a game or loading a level, by comparison to a HDD srt-accelerated containing all of my games).

That said, the option 1) would seem appropriate then. But I am really enthousiast with this idea of building a crazy and complicated system. Yes I like headaches. But if my proposed configuration could work, this would mean a very efficient and affordable system. I think of it as a challenge. But maybe it is not possible. That's what I would like to know before I try it when I receive my parts.

So my question remains. To resume my heading thread:
I'd like to know if it is possible to have a SSD containing at the same time a cache for a HDD and the OS on different partitions. Plus, could this SSD cache be attributed to a partitioned HDD?

Hey, hope I didn't make any offense, I really appreciate your answers. It has permitted me to point out more exactly what is all this crazy stuff I want to do with my system.

Bye!
Seyphyr

 

[EarthDog]

Either get a tiny (30GB) cache drive with a large HDD and call it a day (Option 1), or simply buy a large enough SSD to hold the OS and your major apps/games (64-128GB) and use the HDD as storage (Option 3).

Those are your choices really.

 

[johan851]

A SSD partitioned in 2: one partition for the OS alone (I plan 30GB), and another one for the SSD caching of a partitioned HDD (what remains, so approx. 34GB).

It would be nice if that worked, but unfortunately it's difficult. The SSD caching feature doesn't like to boot to a drive that's also caching another hard drive. So unfortunately that's out.

If you've already bought the parts, your choices are really between putting OS and programs on the 64GB SSD, or putting everything on the 2TB drive with the 64GB SSD as the cache. Your spinning disk is a Caviar Black, so that's nice and fast as HDDs go. So, to reiterate:

1) Put OS and programs on the SSD, storage on the HDD
2) Put everything on the HDD with the SSD as the cache

Personally I would go with option 1. The downside is that you might not have enough room for all the programs you want; I ran into that with a 60GB drive, but it's certainly doable if you're careful. You can also install programs you care about less to the HDD.

Option 2 is OK, but I don't think you'll get optimal performance from it. If you really want to install, say, 10 big games, and you want good performance from all of them, then option 2 might be your best bet.

There is an option 3...

3) Partition the SSD, put a few programs on half of it, and use the other half to cache the HDD.

It requires that you install the OS to the HDD, and then you don't have a lot of room on the SSD for programs. In my opinion this is the worst of both worlds - it's complicated and doesn't really achieve your goals.

 

[Seiphyr]

Either get a tiny (30GB) cache drive with a large HDD and call it a day (Option 1), or simply buy a large enough SSD to hold the OS and your major apps/games (64-128GB) and use the HDD as storage (Option 3).

Those are your choices really.

Thanks Earthdog for your straithforward reply,

What I will do:
Because I'm quite stubborn and have some time to waste anyway right now, I will problably try it my way just for fun, try to reinvent the wheel, then be really sad about my failure and figure out another way to do it. Then after some others weird failure installations, I will finally concede that you are right and do it your way, with option 1, as I will already have all the parts necessary.

Thanks a lot for trying to heal my illness

Seiphyr

 

[Theocnoob]

Hi Theocnoob and thanks for your reply,

Your second option seems reasonable: 2 SSDs, one for cache and one for OS + programs. But there is 2 problems:
1) I just bought all the parts to build a nice setup from scratch (I only had a laptop before), and for now, I would like an option without having to excavate anymore into my budjet.
2) I like to play a lot of various games at a random time, from old to new (well eventually new ones with my new rig), and I don't want to have to be limited in space by even a 240 GB which would cost me a hefty price, not worth the result in my opinion (I don't really care if I wait for 5 seconds more (or is it more??) when starting a game or loading a level, by comparison to a HDD srt-accelerated containing all of my games).

That said, the option 1) would seem appropriate then. But I am really enthousiast with this idea of building a crazy and complicated system. Yes I like headaches. But if my proposed configuration could work, this would mean a very efficient and affordable system. I think of it as a challenge. But maybe it is not possible. That's what I would like to know before I try it when I receive my parts.

So my question remains. To resume my heading thread:
I'd like to know if it is possible to have a SSD containing at the same time a cache for a HDD and the OS on different partitions. Plus, could this SSD cache be attributed to a partitioned HDD?

Hey, hope I didn't make any offense, I really appreciate your answers. It has permitted me to point out more exactly what is all this crazy stuff I want to do with my system.

Bye!
Seyphyr

In that case, the ultimate setup for you is 240GB SSD to hold your operating system, page file, and ALL your games, and a 2TB non cached HDD for photographs, random files, etcetera.

Please do not try to use a partitioned SSD as for Intel "SRT". Please. It's going to give you a migraine. Seriously. The best choice if you can afford it is a 500MB/S up/down 240GB SSD and a big hard drive.

However sadly due to a supply shortage hard drive prices have increased. A HDD that was $50 during the summer goes for as much as $200. May be best to buy the system and SSD and buy a HDD next spring when the pricing makes sense again.

 

[Janus67]

For having a drive as powerful as the m4 I would just use it for the OS and the applications that you can fit on it. Unfortunately I think that the 30 that you set aside for the is would be filled very quickly not leaving much room for anything. For an srt drive I would just get a cheap 30gb-40gb one and set that separately from your nice one. I think the speed would be wasted using that nice of one for caching.

 

[Seiphyr]

It would be nice if that worked, but unfortunately it's difficult. The SSD caching feature doesn't like to boot to a drive that's also caching another hard drive. So unfortunately that's out.

If you've already bought the parts, your choices are really between putting OS and programs on the 64GB SSD, or putting everything on the 2TB drive with the 64GB SSD as the cache. Your spinning disk is a Caviar Black, so that's nice and fast as HDDs go. So, to reiterate:

1) Put OS and programs on the SSD, storage on the HDD
2) Put everything on the HDD with the SSD as the cache

Personally I would go with option 1. The downside is that you might not have enough room for all the programs you want; I ran into that with a 60GB drive, but it's certainly doable if you're careful. You can also install programs you care about less to the HDD.

Option 2 is OK, but I don't think you'll get optimal performance from it. If you really want to install, say, 10 big games, and you want good performance from all of them, then option 2 might be your best bet.

There is an option 3...

3) Partition the SSD, put a few programs on half of it, and use the other half to cache the HDD.

It requires that you install the OS to the HDD, and then you don't have a lot of room on the SSD for programs. In my opinion this is the worst of both worlds - it's complicated and doesn't really achieve your goals.

Wow johan851!

That helps me a lot! It is probably gonna save me a lot of daring DIY guy time!

You may have convinced me... Yes

I still haven't choose which option I will do, I must figure out what I really want to install on my computer (at least options 1 requests it).

I would have liked a SSD with only the OS (and things that can be thrown away like cache), to be able to format and reinstall my OS from time to time to clean it well (like 1 time a year or 2 years), without having to reinstall all my programs to it. I think this is not gonna be possible, as long as I purchase myself another SSD only for OS. That would then be:

1 small SSD for the OS
the SSD I already have (64GB) as cache for
the 2TB Caviar Black I also already have.

Well this makes only one little SSD (like 30GB) to buy, I can still afford this.

This way, this would be more than fast enough for my taste (remember that I am on a Best Buy laptop since more than 3 years). I will so much appreciate the difference with my new desktop!

Oh!! and on this setup, I would also like to have the cache only for the HDD partition with my programs, so that it is more efficient and doesn't get mixed up with the reads on music or movie files. So do you think it is possible to enable a SSD cache for a single partition in a partitioned HDD?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Seiphyr]

In that case, the ultimate setup for you is 240GB SSD to hold your operating system, page file, and ALL your games, and a 2TB non cached HDD for photographs, random files, etcetera.

Please do not try to use a partitioned SSD as for Intel "SRT". Please. It's going to give you a migraine. Seriously. The best choice if you can afford it is a 500MB/S up/down 240GB SSD and a big hard drive.

However sadly due to a supply shortage hard drive prices have increased. A HDD that was $50 during the summer goes for as much as $200. May be best to buy the system and SSD and buy a HDD next spring when the pricing makes sense again.

Well I thought it was reasonable 200$ for a 2TB caviar black, but I haven't followed much the prices lately, and anyway I already bougth it and wouldn't have wanted to wait.

Alright, so no SSD partition.

You seem to have all this same answer, so I will abide by your will.

 

[Seiphyr]

For having a drive as powerful as the m4 I would just use it for the OS and the applications that you can fit on it. Unfortunately I think that the 30 that you set aside for the is would be filled very quickly not leaving much room for anything. For an srt drive I would just get a cheap 30gb-40gb one and set that separately from your nice one. I think the speed would be wasted using that nice of one for caching.

So that is what I will finally do!

Thanks a lot to you all!!

There is still a question unanswered, please see a little farther

 

[johan851]

1 small SSD for the OS
the SSD I already have (64GB) as cache for
the 2TB Caviar Black I also already have.

Flip it around - use that fast M4 for your OS and programs, and the small SSD you get (get a cheap one) for the cache.

I guess that's exactly what Janus said.

 

[Seiphyr]

There is still a question that request another magical answer from you:

Can I do SSD caching for a unique partition inside a HDD? I would like to use the cache only for my programs and games, and not for my music, movies, documents and all!

Thanks

 

[johan851]

I don't believe so. But the cache should be pretty intelligent, and it will cache things that you use rather than things you don't touch often.

 

[Seiphyr]

Out of the subject, but

I haven't participated often on forums, only consultated, probably because I found answers before feeling the need to post my personal question. But now that I needed it, I see how fast and pertinent it can be. Very nice!

A big thanks to you all!

Seiphyr

P.S don't forget my last question please!

 

[johan851]

 

[Seiphyr]

I don't believe so. But the cache should be pretty intelligent, and it will cache things that you use rather than things you don't touch often.

The problem is that I listen all the time to music, is it gonna fill up my cache and then when I want to use a frequently program for which I would like the cache to speed it up, it won't be anymore in the cache?

 

[Janus67]

I don't believe so. But the cache should be pretty intelligent, and it will cache things that you use rather than things you don't touch often.

Agreed, I haven't setup SRT myself, but from what I understand of the technology is that it actively caches the most commonly used files for quick access. It shouldn't be doing your music files unless you are opening and re-accessing that one mp3 over and over and over in comparison to the others. But I would also figure that it would remove things that are no longer accessed making room for others that are.

 

[EarthDog]

Well if he 'uses' the songs more than an application, wouldnt those songs then be cached?

 

[Seiphyr]

Agreed, I haven't setup SRT myself, but from what I understand of the technology is that it actively caches the most commonly used files for quick access. It shouldn't be doing your music files unless you are opening and re-accessing that one mp3 over and over and over in comparison to the others. But I would also figure that it would remove things that are no longer accessed making room for others that are.

Alright,

I will be ready to party on my new rig when it arrives in its state all sadly dismembered