To ‘ES’ or not to ‘ES’? That is the HWBOT question…


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A hot topic on the benchmarking scene has developed in the form of a HWBOT forum poll created by BenchZowner to discuss whether or not to continue to allow Engineering Sample CPUs as boint scoring hardware. For those that may not know, an ES chip is one that is not released to the public, cannot be sold (legally), and can be coveted for its potential overclocking performance over retail chips. A lot of the sponsored overclockers use these chips and can potentially score more boints than an average joe that is using an unbinned retail chip, which is essentially the heart of the matter.

i7 980x "Engineering Sample" (Note Intel Confidential on the IHS)
i7 980x "Engineering Sample" (Note Intel Confidential on the IHS)

The implications for this could be far reaching. The argument presented by BenchZowner is that removing these chips from use would level the playing field between the amateurs and the pros. Some agree, some do not as you can see by the results of the poll (link in the first paragraph). The issue is not a new one, but the passion from both sides of the discussion remain obvious. HWBOT’s own Massman states on the issue:

“…It’s been said a million times, and not just by me, removing ES from HWBOT is just a very short highly ineffective solution. There’s no point in faking to provide a solution when it’s no solution at all.”

So the HWBOT management team is aware of a potential issue, no doubt. Another notable overclocker and member of Overclockers.com, Gautam, stated:

“I’m with most of your guys complaints but what you’re all missing is the fact that stating such a rule won’t solve the problem that you guys want solved. It’s not even a band-aid fix. You guys all want less manufacturer interference, and for it to be easier for the “average joe” to compete. Banning ESes won’t accomplish any of that. What good did that “no ES” rule do in the Gigabyte uguru contest? If you take the GTX480 as an example, the issue isn’t retail vs ES. Some people have access to special BIOSes that others don’t. What good will banning ES cards do there? None.”

The results for this poll seem to be a mixed bag and the debate has been at a constant boil here at overclockers.com and at HWBOT.org.

In response to BenchZowner’s topic, another well respected bencher from our community, MIAHALLEN started another forum poll in regards to making an amateur and professional class separation at “the bot”. In the first 24 hours of voting, the result is considerably in favor (~2 out of 3) of making this change and the management at HWBOT have already been in discussion about it as well.

So what does that mean to you and I, the average overclocker? Only time will tell, but I see this shaking down in two ways. The first, and not likely according to Massman, is that in the future, ES CPUs will not be accepted at HWBOT.org for boints. Many others have mentioned that this is not a solution as the binning process will just be done with retail chips or possibly even fudging CPUz to show that its not an ES chip. The other option that has been in discussion at HWBOT, at least behind the scenes and is now in the public spotlight as noted above, is separating the benchers into amateur and professional sections. The results of this will be unknown as well until rules are decided upon and its rolled out to the public.  Stay Tuned benchers!

EarthDog

About Joe Shields 291 Articles
Joe started writing around 2010 for Overclockers.com covering the latest news and reviews that include video cards, motherboards, storage and processors. In 2018, he went ‘pro’ writing for Anandtech.com covering news and motherboards. Eventually, he landed at Tom’s Hardware where he wrote news, covered graphic card reviews, and currently writes motherboard reviews. If you can’t find him benchmarking and gathering data, Joe can be found working on his website (Overclockers.com), supporting his two kids in athletics, hanging out with his wife catching up on Game of Thrones, watching sports (Go Browns/Guardians/Cavs/Buckeyes!), or playing PUBG on PC.

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rdrash

Senior Member, Benching Team Member

1,586 messages 0 likes

You only have half the story. The hwbot staff and others with access to the development/VIP lounge side at hwbot have been working toward the "professional" league and have discussed moving ES cpus out of the general overclockers league since at least July 2009. Get your facts straight guys.

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner

74,195 messages 1,241 likes

Wow, eazy killer. How was anyone not in the know supposed to find that information out? I poured through the entire two threads to gather this information. Maybe next time can I send stuff like this through you since you are in the know? Can you specifically point out what is false so we can correct it? Thanks.

The issue is not a new one, but the passion from both sides of the discussion remain obvious.

The other option that has been in discussion at HWBOT, at least behind the scenes

and the management at HWBOT have already been in discussion about it as well.

From the article BTW. ^^

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KonaKona

Trashcan Man Member

2,958 messages 0 likes

You only have half the story. The hwbot staff and others with access to the development/VIP lounge side at hwbot have been working toward the "professional" league and have discussed moving ES cpus out of the general overclockers league since at least July 2009. Get your facts straight guys.

I've been over most of the hwbot thread and our other thread here, first I've heard about this.

The article sums it up pretty well that removing ESes doesn't fix anything, however I think we are going to see a certain man come in here and try to convince us otherwise. SNEMOTICON13.gif

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rdrash

Senior Member, Benching Team Member

1,586 messages 0 likes

Wow, eazy killer. How was anyone not in the know supposed to find that information out? I poured through the entire two threads to gather some of this information. Maybe next time can I send stuff like this through you since you are in the know?

Do some real investigation if you're going to jump on the band wagon and publish articles about this...otherwise it should remian in forum discussions. Articles imply a certain amount of research/fact checking has been done... or credibility gets lost.

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner

74,195 messages 1,241 likes

What bandwagon? What are you talking about? Its a general piece about whats going on?!!?!?!!

Please check my edits above, there were mentions of it in the article as I quoted. I read both threads and mentioned what you state I missed. I put them in orange in case you missed them when reading the article.

Again, if the information is not correct, please, since you are in the know, let us know and they will be corrected.

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rdrash

Senior Member, Benching Team Member

1,586 messages 0 likes

You should have asked massman or rb, they probably would have given you more facts/solid dates, perhaps even what is really planned for the next hwbot revision and when it may be rolled out...real news.

Crass yellow journalism if you ask me. My point is you only have half of the story, it's not very professional to just snipe bits and pieces out of other forums to make a front page "Article".... Do your research get the whole truth and then publish a "Article" :thup:

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mdcomp

Classic Administrator

5,190 messages 17 likes

Earthdog, that's a solid summary my friend. It really hits on all the key points in the forums thread.

You only have half the story. The hwbot staff and others with access to the development/VIP lounge side at hwbot have been working toward the "professional" league and have discussed moving ES cpus out of the general overclockers league since at least July 2009. Get your facts straight guys.

Thanks for letting us in on the "confidential" details. Unfortunately, many of us (Earthdog included) do not have access to that area of hwbot. So his report is based entirely on the thread over here and other public information. The source of his facts were cited, and he presents the opinions of others as their opinions, not as his own or those of the Overclockers.com website as a whole.

It is my job as editor to make sure those guidelines are followed. They were followed and followed extremely well. Earthdog's synopsis really impressed me.

Matt

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mdcomp

Classic Administrator

5,190 messages 17 likes

You should have asked massman or rb, they probably would have given you more facts/solid dates, perhaps even what is really planned for the next hwbot revision and when it may be rolled out...real news.

Sounds like a good idea for a follow up article if you ask me.

Thanks for the suggestion.
:thup:

Matt

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rdrash

Senior Member, Benching Team Member

1,586 messages 0 likes

Earthdog, that's a solid summary my friend. It really hits on all the key points in the forums thread.

Thanks for letting us in on the "confidential" details. Unfortunately, many of us (Earthdog included) do not have access to that area of hwbot. So his report is based entirely on the thread over here and other public information. The source of his facts were cited, and he presents the opinions of others as their opinions, not as his own or those of the Overclockers.com website as a whole.

It is my job as editor to make sure those guidelines are followed. They were followed and followed extremely well. Earthdog's synopsis really impressed me.

Matt

Whom did he interview at hwbot?

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KonaKona

Trashcan Man Member

2,958 messages 0 likes

I'm gonna make like a banana and leave this thread.

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