AND FX6300 @4.4 on air, suggestions?

[DAKz]

this is really a sweet way to go, and with the right hardware it is limited only by the size of your stones..LOL. But I have to admit this is doing better on air then I thought it would. The temps run up to 40c real fast when using prime in blend which I agree I won't ever push it that hard with my uses, But after 40c thats when the Hyper 212 seems to really kick in. and the temp rise slows way way down and I didn't see anything 50 or better, not to bad for air.

 

[DAKz]

Advice and opinions?

Just got a good deal on a H100 not the h100i and 4 120's.
So after some research on reviews and testing, I see that the h100 is supposed to be way better then the Hyper 212....way better.
So you guys have guided me along very well through this build so far, so here are some questions.
1) Push/Pull on the fans? I think yes, but then again I see a lot of conflict in the reviews on this.

2) air into the case through the rad or air out of the case through the rad? I think out of the case, why push hot air into the case.

3) If its air into the case through the rad then do I need to flip some of the other case fans to pull the air out? (Currently have 3 120 out and a 140 and 220(??) in, With 2 more 120's on the way, total fans right now is 7 total fans end of the week 9, not counting the 2 fans with the h100)

This is running pretty cool and stable now, no real issues, but from what I am reading even the h100 with 2 stock fans will out preform the hyper 212 with push/pull, so since I got such a good deal on it my thinking is to give it a try. The biggest issue I can gather out of the h100 is the noise when running the fans maxed out, (I don't care about the noise) and the tubes, however since I get the full warranty and the two extra fans to do push/pull its really not a gamble to try it. From what I am reading I see a 2-3c temp drop at idle stock no load, to a 15c lower temp on a 60% overclock. Now I understand different platforms, different temps, different ambient different temps, what I was reading was more for a percentage range of temp difference more then hard numbers to base anything on, if I can run higher and cooler then that makes more sense then running right up to the "edge" and turning it back a click, etc.

Is my thinking pretty close on this?

 

[RGone]

Since you already have the H100 or it sounds on the way, what we might or might not think is of lttle consequence. The H100 was good to about 4.4Ghz or maybe 4.5Ghz until they could not get rid of the heat. Don't know anything about the H100i, but I think they are basically models with a little larger rad and more software.

Give it a go and see what happens. You got it. Give'r a go and the actual case air flow will be the determining factor on air into or out of the case most likely. Many find cool air into the rad works a little better, but then you have to be sure the hot air from the rad gets out of the case.
RGone...
RGone...

 

[DAKz]

Hmm interesting, since I am getting 4.4 to 4.55 on air with the 212 at pretty decent temps. But I am finding that as I adjust the voltages the temps react very fast to the most minor changes, so I am looking for a solution that will give me a little more headroom on temps. Trying to keep it all under 60c and from what I am reading the h100 will do that better then the 212.

And yes what you guys think is a huge advantage to me. The advantage I have is simply if the h100 is discouraged over the 212 then since I am getting it new in the box I will simply put it in the store as inventory and sell it out of the store.

 

[Johan45]

Even the Thermaltake extreme that I'm using is limited Dakz. I do believe it perfors better than most of the ones out there just from my observations and the way I can beat on this thing. It'll take away alot of heat ,just not enough to make a really big difference. It may be my chip or maybe they're all the same but with better cooling I shouldn't need almost 1.6 V to be stable at 4.9G.
If the chip were running cooler it would take less powere . So for day to day clocks it really isn't necessary, If you want to run at 5.0 and higher with stability you'd need a real water set-up. I'm able to go to mid 5's with stupid voltage for short periods to bench a bit but, I really am taking my chances but this is my stuff and that's my perogative. I wouldn't recommend any one else do what I do.

In the words of C_D " we are trained rodeo clowns"

 

[RGone]

CPU > AMD FX 6300 Black Edition 4.2GHz = Is what Is shown as your normal speed or seems so.

since I am getting 4.4 to 4.55 on air = Is that your newest real daily speed? Not what was in signature?

When you begin to use a water block for cooling the cpu itself, you remove the air flow that came "from" spillover of the cpu air cooler and then the VRM circuit and sometimes the North Bridge itself begin to have elevated temps since there is no air flow over those heat sinks that came mounted on the motherboard already.

Most often this missing spill over air that was helping to keep the cpu socket temp low; now brings on an increased cpu socket temp and that rise in temp can bring on its' own brand of issues. If the VRM and North Bridge and Socket temps rise too greatly because of the missing spill over air flow, then most of us have to add a fan blowing onto the VRM sinks and the North Bridge sink and in general onto the socket of the cpu area. I cannot number the times that water cooling the cpu had the user back in here wondering why he was now throttling again due to having water cooled the cpu. Well one temp was lowered but another rose and it is always a balancing act for cooling the HoT azz FX processsors.

By the way, I don't know what forums and such that you got information about the H100 in but you did not see any of us that do most of the helping in this AMD Cpu Forum section, recommend highly a move from CM 212 EVO/Plus to the H100. Most of us that 'haul the fast mail' everyday, have watercooling setups that are in the $250 Usd range. And because I removed the spill over air from around my onboard heat sinks, I have a 90mm fan blowing onto the VRM and North Bridge heat sinks and another fan mounted to blow "under" the mobo and blow air across the rear of the cpu socket. NoW I am doing real business with water cooling.

Now I did not type all of that in my last post above. But it is what those of us that talk often outside the forum have come to know and understand and do. It is the communicating of "lots" of extra information that we all have to learn, but I am often acccused of writing paragraphs and perhaps rightly so, but it is the paragraphs that I use to tell the rest of the story that most don't have when they get here wanting to overclock a HoT azz FX processor. It is in the paragraphs, where the information that is not easily gotten from the general forum speak, that that other info can be found. Here again I cannot begin to count the number of people that myself or maybe 4 others with fast FX rigs have told a newer user to forget the H100 if expecting to run in the 4.7GHz range.

There is nothing wrong with the H100 inherently, but for very large Cpu Mhz with 6 and 8 core processors there is just not enough cooling capacity overall and then may come other temp problems that result from the misssing spill over air that was doing other cooling when the cpu was cooled with an air cooler. Now that is the rest of the story.

You really fooled me with that NIB thing and sell thru the store. You must have a computer store? Or something on that order. That said, I don't know what to finally say. There are other kits like the one Johan45 is using that can be 'expanded' to a degree. That is not normally considered so for the H100 small CL systems. So you might use your insider buying power to go on big to begin with? Or try the H100 and then deal with the other possible temps rises. I guess that is about the best I can type an explanation of the situation of the H100 and going from Air Cooling the Cpu to Water Cooling the cpu at some level.
RGone...

EDIT:
"Johan45" got here first.
END EDIT.

 

[Johan45]

When you begin to use a water block for cooling the cpu itself, you remove the air flow that came "from" spillover of the cpu air cooler and then the VRM circuit and sometimes the North Bridge itself begin to have elevated temps since there is no air flow over those heat sinks that came mounted on the motherboard already.
EDIT:
"Johan45" got here first.
END EDIT.

This is the exact problem that brought me to this forum in the first place. It was my first time with something of that nature( got it for $80) and couldn't figure out why things were just skyrocketing. My socket temps were 20° higher then my cores and really causing issues. That's how I met this fine crowd here and haven't stopped learning since.

Rgone I got here first while you were writing " paragraphs"

 

[RGone]

Yes man I know...it is the freeken paragraphs.

You came here looking for a single answer and stayed to help the 100's or 1000's and for that the many should be thankful.
RGone...

 

[Mandrake4565]

It always good too read these posts to remind me why I stayed and stay on this forum. People who enjoy the art of pushing their processors and teaching others how to do it correctly. Great posts Gonster and Johan

DAKz, as you can see most of the people here helping a passionate about making their rigs faster and also to help us all understand how and why we all do certain things to them. We all share what works for each of us, such as putting fans on the VRM heatsinks and sticking one behind the motherboard. It has all been learned by pushing these heat mongers to the limit.

I myself have learned something new almost every time I really put my foot on the neck of this 8350. My newest endeavor was realizing that my 650w gold PSU doesn't have enough power on the 12v rail, to push both my 5850 and my gtx 580, which is a new piece I recently added, to the limit. This helps me now when suggesting a power supply to others for these Fx processors. What I'm trying to say is we learn sometimes by trial and error and we have all helped each other along the way.

I also forgot about this one,

In the words of C_D " we are trained rodeo clowns"

LOL. MORE POWA!!!

 

[DAKz]

See that's why I come here, I can think out loud and you guys provide a wealth of knowledge for any single thought.
So I will take the easy ones first. Yes aware of the spill over air issues, and have 2 120mm fans coming to add air to the vrm area of the sabertooth, the socket area I am thinking about a fan there but right now I am not up for drilling a couple hundred holes in the side of the case, but have a few ideas for that as well.
Yes I am a bench tech in a local shop where I sit all day and play with people's laptops that can't figure out how to download flash player in youtube so they can see a video, and tbh that is what I think is the attraction here, I like coming home at night and starting this thing up and studying here and there for the performance gain that has and will translate down to the monster core 2 laptops I do about 6-10 per day. TO me its pure fun. I read another thread that asked "What do you use your computer for" Do I game on it? sure, Do I do photo editing, web design, etc. sure, but and maybe I am old fashion here, but I build the machine to do anything I want it to do, not build it towards a particular software release that will be "old" by the time my new parts get here. Another goal was to introduce some of our customers to a higher performance build and show them what is available for a decent price if you shop. Now as this build has evolved I think I got a little over $800 in the whole thing. And I am kind of proud of that fact and that its doing so well considering what I got into it.
As far as the h100 goes I got such a good deal on it with two extra fans with the idea while its not the latest greatest, with the push/pull and the price it would be a good introduction to liquid cooling to see the best gain possible as compared to the 212. Will I upgrade the h100? Yea I am pretty sure I will, but again this is an introduction to the whole area. And all this is a long way from back when I used to solder in higher freq crystals into 386 mobo for a higher clock speed.
As for my current speed, its running right now about 4.2 as my a/c went out and the repair man thinks it will take days to make a repair visit so I have turned it down as the room temp is in the 80's.
My overall goal is to find the area where the voltage is high enough to support a stable clock speed raise performance, and keep the whole thing under $1,000. So far, and based on a lot of advice here, I have done pretty well with it, and I am sure when I say that my current build will never be done everyone will understand that it never is done for any of us.
Thanks again guys.

 

[RGone]

I am sure when I say that my current build will never be done everyone will understand that it never is done for any of us. = Most of us that are really into computers and maybe not so much what they can do, although that is ultimately important, know of what you speak.

Quite truthfully you are not nearly as lost as you might have us to believe. Over the course of postings, you have let the cat out of the bag. When I knew you spoke of NIB, I knew something was up. And yes it does take a little time to feel free in a forum. Free around even those of like interrests.

There are only 4 or 5 of us that pretty much hang here and help as help can do. In some cases it is easy and other times equipment holds things back and other times it is just the poster themselves. Lately it has been mostly equipment coming head on up against the H0T azz FX processor that takes a ton of Vcore and a robust VRM to keep the voltage and current up to par.

It really is a breath of fresh air to see someone that is both interested and willing to move on with learning. That is a real plus for most of us that hang and help. If the H100 was just a super smoking hot deal, then give it a go. My thought as I read your post above was to say, to put your money in the beginnings of a water cooling setup that could grow. You will be there before long. However I am not saying such now. I rather think you may need to see why most us that push the FX processor have to have more than the mini-loop systems. That is your experience. That is your journey into knowledge. I will not speak against your motives and experiential moves. Good luck man. Congrats on where you are. I find the more time I spend at the keyboard with the bios and an image of my C:\, the more I learn. That is the part that even my often wordy paragraphs cannot convey. You got the board and when you again have a cooler room, you can teach yourself by experience. That is where the real knowledge is gained. We can only suggest.
RGone...

 

[DAKz]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, really means a lot.
TBH all this has been a lot to wrap my mind around, and just as I thought I was making progress at it all the BIOS setup that I have used for years is now the UEFI ASUS BIOS which still giving me a learning curve anxiety. LOL mostly through their terminology. I read here a lot so I don't sound like a complete n00b, however I think that the progress made so far is good, and for me the step into liquid is a really huge step, and while we both know that in a short time I will be posting here about a custom loop, right now this is another step in the evolution, for me personally, and also while I could dive into a top end setup, I still have to advise customers that may not want to see the gains that I do, so to be able to voice experience with the stock, the 212, the h100, and eventually the custom, I will be able to expand my knowledge, and advise them truthfully and honestly to meet their needs while expanding my knowledge.
Thanks again....
Now back to this UEFI BIOS....

 

[RGone]

This site does not easily allow for cut N paste so here is the link.

Understanding Voltages shown in motherboard bioses. This page does not allow any cut and paste so cannot copy any of the names for CPU Voltage. You can use that link to look at the different names that "might" be assigned to Vcore on various AMD boards.
LINK>> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/prin...ltage-Configurations-from-the-Motherboard/995

 

[DAKz]

OK now as I plan the install of the h100 I have found a couple issues that I would love some comments on. Refer to the pic below and its clear what the issue is, I am preheating the hyper 212 with hot air from the video card. Also preheating the vrms and the northbridge. Pretty smart huh? Clear from this what the problem is, gut reaction move it down to the next pcie slot and add side intake cooling to move that video card air and cool it faster. Trying to eye up placement and flow for the h100 in a push pull config, but this one really caught my attention.
First thought was to flip the 212, and use the push pull to push hot air right out the back. Move the video card down to the middle pcie slot and this would also put it in the middle of the two side cover 129mm fans so the air would move.cool and be better running over the northbridge and not a straight shot right into the hyper 212 intake.
Thoughts?
For the h100 I am planing on a push/pull drawing out side air in from the top, then the rear case fan as exhaust, te bottom case fan as exhaust, the 2 side panel fans as air for the northbridge and vrm's, trying to design it so the air is moving and not fighting as it is around the video card. Suggestions?? If I was going to keep the 212 I would be flipping it on its side to try to solve this somewhat and draw the 12c case air over the ram into the fans/fins/fans and right out of the case, with 4 more fans coming and the 7 already in the case I got to figure out a better airflow pattern,

 

[Mandrake4565]

DAKz, I would think that turning it east west as opposed to north south like you have it may make a slight difference, due to it not drawing hot air off the back of the GPU. Though my guess is it would be 1-2 C at best, take into consideration I may or may not have a clue about what I'm talking about, so your best bet is, turn that sucker and see if it makes a difference. I think I've had too much coffee this morning.

 

[Johan45]

Ok Dakz I'll tell you what I did with mine which ended up completely different by the time I was done so . I'll start at the end and leave the rest for you to read. This was my first post in the forum.
The AIO cooler was causing me problems I'd never dealt with before, that and the MOBO wasn't quite up to the task of feeding an 8core piledriver.

My suggestion would be first to flip the PSU over since the bottom of your case is vented and that's actually an intake on the PSU. I'd put the rad in the top and leave the GFX card the way it is. Also at this point I wouldn't install any side fan and see how it goes.



And see if you can put a 50mm behind the CPU like you saw in my thread.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Ok Dakz I'll tell you what I did with mine which ended up completely different by the time I was done so . I'll start at the end and leave the rest for you to read. This was my first post in the forum.
The AIO cooler was causing me problems I'd never dealt with before, that and the MOBO wasn't quite up to the task of feeding an 8core piledriver.

My suggestion would be first to flip the PSU over since the bottom of your case is vented and that's actually an intake on the PSU. I'd put the rad in the top and leave the GFX card the way it is. Also at this point I wouldn't install any side fan and see how it goes.

View attachment 129427

And see if you can put a 50mm behind the CPU like you saw in my thread.

Pretty Colors

 

[Johan45]

Pretty Colors

You should see what I can do after I've been weed whackin for a while

 

[RGone]

You should see what I can do after I've been weed whackin for a while

OOOOOH Baby OOOOOH

RGone...

 

[Johan45]

OOOOOH Baby OOOOOH

RGone...

Sometimes I end up like this