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Any OC.com Member make waterblocks?

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The Spyder said:
Hoot- what is each part of the block made out of? How did you get the fittings to stay in? Are they brass? 1/2inch 3/8?
Spyder

The base is a one-piece forged copper unit. The sides are 1/16" brass strap stock I got from Menards, bent precisely to form a good square and the top is a piece of 1/8" brass plate stock I had left over from a VHF PA project. The barbs are 1/2" brass with the threaded end turned down by chucking them in a drill press and taking a file to them. Since I was going to solder them in, there was no need for huge threaded holes. I turned them down to 5/8" OD and drilled 5/8" holes in the top cover to accept them. The channel insert is from some 24ga copper sheet stock I had in the junk box. The sides are soldered to the base and top is soldered to the sides using a process of tinning just the points where they touch each other using a Weller solder gun, then gently heating the whole assemply with a torch until the tinned areas liquify and bond to one another. I did not want solder all over the inside of the baseplate, forming another thermal boundary. Simple sweating with a torch, flux and solder tends to draw a lot of excess solder inside the heatsink through capillary action and leaves a lot of solder on the outside of the heastink, not to mention the stains and discoloration. I've been soldering for 27 years and I know how not to make a mess. :D

I could have sworn I posted step by step pictures earlier in this thread :eh?: I'll probably submit an article on the process for the front page when I have some disposable time to write it up.

Hoot
 
I read threw it- must have missed it- ofcoruse no sleep dosent help either- you would not be offended if I made a block like yours- or had you made me one if you were willing too :-D
Spyder
 
As I said earlier in the thread, I pirated the base from a pre-production air cooled heatsink that has not, as far as I know, gone into production yet. You could probably use a Kanie Hedgehog or root about for some other one-piece copper pinned base. GN for now. Gotta get up for work in 4 hours :(

Hoot
 
I saved all Hoot's pictures so I could duplicate his design. I didn't know about the solder spreading with a torch. Thanx for the warning Hoot. An article would be great.

I tried to find a Hedgehog but the suggested retailers didn't have them listed.

Edit: Never mind, I found it at Polycon for $35+S&H.
 
Last edited:
i got an idea.....

hoot,

until i saw your nealy bred copper-fin water block, which, btw, is great work, i thought that the maze 3 had the BEST design ( without turbulance... )

but i thought of the folloeing:
i guess u might get a tad bit better flow rate in the block if you construct the edgy spine, inside, into a snake ( aka maze3 ).

corners with 90° wont give u as good as a flow like a "round" corner.

do u know what i mean?


just my 2 cents ( since i cant weldge and dont have the appropiate maschines at home :( )


HR
 
Hoot and CreePinG_DeatH - you are genius!

This is the best WB design I have seen so far.
It also seems the easest to DIY - to use air heat sink...

My only comment would be the use of 2 metals and battery effect. I don't know whether you took care of it...

No comments on the design - I think it's perfect!!!!
 
If you look at the galvanic relationship of copper to brass (throw in a little Lead/Tin solder) you will see that they lie right next to each other, unlike copper to say, Aluminum. That anodic/cathodic simularity between copper and brass does not pose a high galvanic potential between them. Add to that, the fact that I use Water Wetter, which helps inhibit corrosion and I'm not too worried about it. In a few days, I will be taking my watersink out of my system to send to Bill for retesting. At that time, I will have a peek inside to see how it is holding up. If I see any signs of advanced deterioration, I'll report it.

Hoot
 
Dude, if there was a better compliment I could give other than "That is the greatest DIY(or even massproduced) water block I've seen to date." I would give it to you. I've got a Swifty air cooled and have wondered if it would work in a liquid setup, your uni-base-pin is better. That kicks donkeys!
 
Looks like i have found the sink to use...looks like the pins are the right hight too.

AK-350.jpg
 
Have you found a stateside dealer for that akasa? If so, please pass it along. Globalwin was no help sourcing the base I originally used.

Hoot
 
Hard to tell from the picture whether it is copper or aluminum. I think we can all agree that copper would be the better choice.

Part of my efforts to source the necessary components to begin manufacturing my watersink found the AK350 for a reasonable price in quantities, even though it would be coming from the UK, so that is now a non-issue. I'm just waiting for BillA to complete his testing to determine whether and when I will start producing this unit. Should that occur, I will post the particulars in the cooling classifieds.

Hoot
 
Hoot said:


The base is a one-piece forged copper unit. The sides are 1/16" brass strap stock I got from Menards, bent precisely to form a good square and the top is a piece of 1/8" brass plate stock I had left over from a VHF PA project. The barbs are 1/2" brass with the threaded end turned down by chucking them in a drill press and taking a file to them. Since I was going to solder them in, there was no need for huge threaded holes. I turned them down to 5/8" OD and drilled 5/8" holes in the top cover to accept them. The channel insert is from some 24ga copper sheet stock I had in the junk box. The sides are soldered to the base and top is soldered to the sides using a process of tinning just the points where they touch each other using a Weller solder gun, then gently heating the whole assemply with a torch until the tinned areas liquify and bond to one another. I did not want solder all over the inside of the baseplate, forming another thermal boundary. Simple sweating with a torch, flux and solder tends to draw a lot of excess solder inside the heatsink through capillary action and leaves a lot of solder on the outside of the heastink, not to mention the stains and discoloration. I've been soldering for 27 years and I know how not to make a mess. :D

I could have sworn I posted step by step pictures earlier in this thread :eh?: I'll probably submit an article on the process for the front page when I have some disposable time to write it up.

Hoot
Question for ya Hoot, whatcha think about this?? I added a piece of copper pipe to the inside of a 1/2 barb and soldered it in. I drilled just a bit from the topside to give the insert a bevel and not disturb flow too much. The idea is to give a pressure increase on the center barb of waterblock. Think its worth the trouble, haven't tested it yet?
331519barb.jpg
 
It depends upon what you are trying to accomplish. If your reasoning is that by restricting the volume of the barb, you will increase the velocity of the water passing through it and hence make it strike the baseplate with greater force, you may be disappointed with the result. For the same driving pressure, by restricting the volume, you will indeed increase the velocity at the sacrifice of the rate at which the water moves through the block. The trade-off can yield a positive reduction in temperature of the area where the water strikes the baseplate, typically, directly over the part where it rests upon the die, however for the heat that propagates laterally out from that area, into the rest of the baseplate, the lower rate of flow may negatively impact the ability to remove as much of that secondary heat from the rest of the baseplate.

To put the question of benefit versus detriment into perspective, lets say hypothetically that 75% of the heat from the die is removed by virtue of the water striking the baseplate in the area where it contacts the die and the other 25% of the heat propagates outward from that area into the rest of the baseplate. That remaining area of the baseplate does not benefit from that initial downblast, but rather gives up its heat as a function of the rate at which the water flows over it. Now lets further say that if you increase the velocity of the downblast and the area above the die now gives up 80% of the heat, but by reducing the flow rate through the rest of the block, it only gives up 20% now, you will have broken even. If it gives up less, you will have negatively impacted your blocks performance.

The point is, without a lot of experimentation, it is hard to speculate where the "sweet spot" is for a given block design in considering the importance of striking velocity versus total rate of flow. That is what makes the whole experimentation process so darn interesting. For me, the redundant nature of "cut and try" is not as burdensome as it is fascinating, so I don't mind taking that approach. Having a patient disposition helps alot. Thank goodness I do not do this for a living because I'd probably be forced to conserve effort by mathematical modeling and to me that would remove some of the "magic" and hence personal interest in the process. For others, the opposite may be true.

Obviously, in the typical water cooled PC, there are many other mitigating factors. Cooling water temperature is a big factor but equally important is your choice of pumps. Not based solely upon some often subjective claimed rate of flow, but by the amount of "Head" the pump tolerates. The pumps we most often choose can only tolerate a certain amount of resistance to flow before the water starts slipping back past the impeller, much like air slips out the back of an axial fan when you place resistance to free air flow in front of it. At the beginning of this now lengthy response, I said "for the same driving pressure". That pressure is not the same for different amounts of flow resistance and adds yet another variable to the experimentation process.

So, go ahead and try different striking velocity techniques, but you better have good die temperature measuring facilities to be able to meter whether you are moving in a positive or negative direction with each physical change. Unless you're real lucky, small incremantal changes will not always yield a large enough performance change to register with less accurate die temperature metering techniques. Above all, keep good notes.

Hoot

P.S. Does anyone besides me think that it's about time to move this thread to the water cooling forum?
 
if your testing goes well with the asksa 350 and you start to sell the pin fin block will you just make a single version of the block or will you have options like amd / p4 mounting and differant barb size. I personaly would like a p4 version with 6mm fittings for a koolance system.

myarse
 
Hoot said:
It depends upon what you are trying to accomplish. If your reasoning is that by restricting the volume of the barb, you will increase the velocity of the water passing through it and hence make it strike the baseplate with greater force, you may be disappointed with the result. For the same driving pressure, by restricting the volume, you will indeed increase the velocity at the sacrifice of the rate at which the water moves through the block. The trade-off can yield a positive reduction in temperature of the area where the water strikes the baseplate, typically, directly over the part where it rests upon the die, however for the heat that propagates laterally out from that area, into the rest of the baseplate, the lower rate of flow may negatively impact the ability to remove as much of that secondary heat from the rest of the baseplate.

To put the question of benefit versus detriment into perspective, lets say hypothetically that 75% of the heat from the die is removed by virtue of the water striking the baseplate in the area where it contacts the die and the other 25% of the heat propagates outward from that area into the rest of the baseplate. That remaining area of the baseplate does not benefit from that initial downblast, but rather gives up its heat as a function of the rate at which the water flows over it. Now lets further say that if you increase the velocity of the downblast and the area above the die now gives up 80% of the heat, but by reducing the flow rate through the rest of the block, it only gives up 20% now, you will have broken even. If it gives up less, you will have negatively impacted your blocks performance.

The point is, without a lot of experimentation, it is hard to speculate where the "sweet spot" is for a given block design in considering the importance of striking velocity versus total rate of flow. That is what makes the whole experimentation process so darn interesting. For me, the redundant nature of "cut and try" is not as burdensome as it is fascinating, so I don't mind taking that approach. Having a patient disposition helps alot. Thank goodness I do not do this for a living because I'd probably be forced to conserve effort by mathematical modeling and to me that would remove some of the "magic" and hence personal interest in the process. For others, the opposite may be true.

Obviously, in the typical water cooled PC, there are many other mitigating factors. Cooling water temperature is a big factor but equally important is your choice of pumps. Not based solely upon some often subjective claimed rate of flow, but by the amount of "Head" the pump tolerates. The pumps we most often choose can only tolerate a certain amount of resistance to flow before the water starts slipping back past the impeller, much like air slips out the back of an axial fan when you place resistance to free air flow in front of it. At the beginning of this now lengthy response, I said "for the same driving pressure". That pressure is not the same for different amounts of flow resistance and adds yet another variable to the experimentation process.

So, go ahead and try different striking velocity techniques, but you better have good die temperature measuring facilities to be able to meter whether you are moving in a positive or negative direction with each physical change. Unless you're real lucky, small incremantal changes will not always yield a large enough performance change to register with less accurate die temperature metering techniques. Above all, keep good notes.

Hoot

P.S. Does anyone besides me think that it's about time to move this thread to the water cooling forum?

That was a very interesting read. If I understand it correctly, the reduced size of the inlet barb (or a piece of copper just behind it)is used in Cathar's waterblock design as well. I imagine he has tested his design with a normal inlet too, yet chose the restriction path.
Judging from your block's design and Cathar's you have taken wildly different approaches, where Cathar focuses on the central (primary) area more than you do.
 
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